- DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

NPC: power coat questions
by Larry - Ohio Time 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Ok guys I have some questions on power coating. I have never done it before but have spent time reading and on Youtube for demos. I would like to power coat a modern sand cast aluminum intake manifold. I will clean up the cast flashing but it will never be smooth. I am looking at the Eastwood Chrome power. I have the Eastwood gun, clean dry air, new electric kitchen oven (fell off truck $15). Questions: 1. If I coat in the shop can I carry the intake outside to put in oven without the power blowing off? 2. Some say pre heat item before coating, some say not to? 3. How clean do the non coated parts (under side, inside) of the intake need to be? With them being dirty and out-gassing in the oven be a problem? 4. Is the chrome power the best to use on the rough sand cast finish of the intake? 5. Use a filler coat? Thick coat? Don't worry about it? 5. Bolts are put into holes to keep the power out of them, leave them on in oven or remove them before oven? Thanks Larry - Cleveland Ok guys I have some questions on power coating. I have never done it before but have spent time reading and on Youtube for demos. I would like to power coat a modern sand cast aluminum intake manifold. I will clean up the cast flashing but it will never be smooth. I am looking at the Eastwood Chrome power. I have the Eastwood gun, clean dry air, new electric kitchen oven (fell off truck $15). Questions: 1. If I coat in the shop can I carry the intake outside to put in oven without the power blowing off? 2. Some say pre heat item before coating, some say not to? 3. How clean do the non coated parts (under side, inside) of the intake need to be? With them being dirty and out-gassing in the oven be a problem? 4. Is the chrome power the best to use on the rough sand cast finish of the intake? 5. Use a filler coat? Thick coat? Don't worry about it? 5. Bolts are put into holes to keep the power out of them, leave them on in oven or remove them before oven? Thanks Larry - Cleveland

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NPC: powder coat questions
by Larry Finch 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Larry, Yes, to the caution on gasoline resistance. Garth has nailed these questions already, but since I had this already to send…………. As one who was employed for a bit as a production powder painter in a very small shop, I offer: Questions: 1. If I coat in the shop can I carry the intake outside to put in oven without the power blowing off? ……………. Yes, carefully and do not bump against anything 2. Some say pre heat item before coating, some say not to? …………….If the item is used, you really should pre-bake it in hopes of removing old oil and grease. Lacquer thinner is a good pre-paint wipedown. 3. How clean do the non coated parts (under side, inside) of the intake need to be? With them being dirty and out-gassing in the oven be a problem? ……………. Cleaner the better, But you must pre-bake or run-off can ruin exposed finish areas 4. Is the chrome power the best to use on the rough sand cast finish of the intake? ……………Like all powder coat, it will flow and somewhat smooth out some of the roughness. 5. Use a filler coat? Thick coat? Don't worry about it? ………….You can overload a piece with powder. Then it will actually produce runs like wet paint. There is a knack to getting powder into deep corners while avoiding placing too much on the adjoining areas. 5. Bolts are put into holes to keep the power out of them, leave them on in oven or remove them before oven? Painters use silicone plugs/caps for threaded holes. They survive the oven. Try the small parts trays at Lowes. just using bolts, I would carefully remove them prior to baking. Larry Larry, Yes, to the caution on gasoline resistance. Garth has nailed these questions already, but since I had this already to send.. ........... As one who was employed for a bit as a production powder painter in a very small shop, I offer: Questions: 1. If I coat in the shop can I carry the intake outside to put in oven without the power blowing off? ................ Yes, carefully and do not bump against anything 2. Some say pre heat item before coating, some say not to? ................If the item is used, you really should pre-bake it in hopes of r emoving old oil and grease. Lacquer thinner is a good pre-paint wipedown. 3. How clean do the non coated parts (under side, inside) of the intake need to be? With them being dirty and out-gassing in the oven be a problem? ................ Cleaner the better, But you must pre-bake or run-off can ruin e xposed finish areas 4. Is the chrome power the best to use on the rough sand cast finish of the intake? ...............Like all powder coat, it will flow and somewhat smooth out some o f the roughness. 5. Use a filler coat? Thick coat? Don't worry about it? .............You can overload a piece with powder. Then it will actually produce runs like wet paint. There is a knack to getting powder into deep corners while avoiding plac ing too much on the adjoining areas. 5. Bolts are put into holes to keep the power out of them, leave them on in oven or remove them before oven? Painters use silicone plugs/caps for threaded holes. They survive the ov en. Try the small parts trays at Lowes. just using bolts, I would carefully remo ve them prior to baking. Larry

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Pantera on Facebook
by Jerry Knotts 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

This just showed up on my Facebook page yesterday. Bart Lowery's car in OKC. Not too shabby, the car, the 1/2 million views and 17 thousand likes. If you will read some of the 880 comments you will find a desperate dearth in knowledge about the Pantera and the typical internet head slamming from the inability to understand English. The presenter says that Bart won't mind him opening the engine compartment. Always love the car, jerry knotts https://www.facebook.com/1320Videos/videos/10154422709792112/ This just showed up on my Facebook page yesterday. Bart Lowery's car in OKC. Not too shabby, the car, the 1/2 million views and 17 thousand likes. If you will read some of the 880 comments you will find a desperate dearth in knowledge about the Pantera and the typical internet head slamming from the inability to understand English. The presenter says that Bart won't mind him opening the engine compartment. Always love the car, jerry knotts [1]https://www.facebook.com/1320Videos/videos/10154422709792112/ References Visible links 1. https://www.facebook.com/1320Videos/videos/10154422709792112/ Hidden links: 3. https://www.facebook.com/1320Videos/videos/10154422709792112/ 4. https://www.facebook.com/1320Videos/videos/10154422709792112/

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NPC: powder coat questions
by Garth Rodericks 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Larry, Answers to your questions below... Ok guys I have some questions on power coating. I have never done it before but have spent time reading and on Youtube for demos. I would like to power coat a modern sand cast aluminum intake manifold. I will clean up the cast flashing but it will never be smooth. I am looking at the Eastwood Chrome powder. I have the Eastwood gun, clean dry air, new electric kitchen oven (fell off truck $15). Questions: 1. If I coat in the shop can I carry the intake outside to put in oven without the power blowing off? Yes, as long as it's not too windy. If you pre-heat the part before coating, it will begin to fuse to the part and be much less likely to fall off. 2. Some say pre-heat item before coating, some say not to? Yes, especially if there are nooks and crannies in the part, such as pockets between intake runners. The Farraday Cage effect will prevent powder from going into those spots. The way around this is to pre-heat the part and shoot powder into those areas first, WITHOUT charging the part! Then, turn on the charge/power and powder coat the rest of the part. 3. How clean do the non coated parts (under side, inside) of the intake need to be? With them being dirty and out-gassing in the oven be a problem? Shouldn't be a problem, but reasonably clean would be good so you don't handle it and get greasy finger prints anywhere else on your part to be coated, which will ruin the powder coat. 4. Is the chrome power the best to use on the rough sand cast finish of the intake? That's a question for Eastwood; I imagine it depends on the finish you're seeking. 5. Use a filler coat? Thick coat? Don't worry about it? I don't think you need a filler coat. Just apply a regular amount of powder coat and you should be good. 6. Bolts are put into holes to keep the powder out of them, leave them on in oven or remove them before oven? I would leave them in the holes when cooking in the oven to avoid disturbing the delicate powder sitting on the surface, but be careful that you don't fuse the bolts to the part by applying too much powder. Purchase some special silicon masking tape specifically for powder coating applications and wrap the base of the bolt threads with it. That will prevent the powder from bonding to the bolt threads and fusing it to the manifold. Check out this thread on the PI Board for a description and pictures of my experience powder coating my wheels.http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1510042044/m/4081069456 Cheers! Garth Larry, Answers to your questions below... Ok guys I have some questions on power coating. I have never done it before but have spent time reading and on Youtube for demos. I would like to power coat a modern sand cast aluminum intake manifold. I will clean up the cast flashing but it will never be smooth. I am looking at the Eastwood Chrome powder. I have the Eastwood gun, clean dry air, new electric kitchen oven (fell off truck $15). Questions: 1. If I coat in the shop can I carry the intake outside to put in oven without the power blowing off? Yes, as long as it's not too windy. If you pre-heat the part before coating, it will begin to fuse to the part and be much less likely to fall off. 2. Some say pre-heat item before coating, some say not to? Yes, especially if there are nooks and crannies in the part, such as pockets between intake runners. The Farraday Cage effect will prevent powder from going into those spots. The way around this is to pre-heat the part and shoot powder into those areas first, WITHOUT charging the part! Then, turn on the charge/power and powder coat the rest of the part. 3. How clean do the non coated parts (under side, inside) of the intake need to be? With them being dirty and out-gassing in the oven be a problem? Shouldn't be a problem, but reasonably clean would be good so you don't handle it and get greasy finger prints anywhere else on your part to be coated, which will ruin the powder coat. 4. Is the chrome power the best to use on the rough sand cast finish of the intake? That's a question for Eastwood; I imagine it depends on the finish you're seeking. 5. Use a filler coat? Thick coat? Don't worry about it? I don't think you need a filler coat. Just apply a regular amount of powder coat and you should be good. 6. Bolts are put into holes to keep the powder out of them, leave them on in oven or remove them before oven? I would leave them in the holes when cooking in the oven to avoid disturbing the delicate powder sitting on the surface, but be careful that you don't fuse the bolts to the part by applying too much powder. Purchase some special silicon masking tape specifically for powder coating applications and wrap the base of the bolt threads with it. That will prevent the powder from bonding to the bolt threads and fusing it to the manifold. Check out this thread on the PI Board for a description and pictures of my experience powder coating my wheels. [1]http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1510042044/m/4081069456 Cheers! Garth References 1. http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1510042044/m/4081069456

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Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Website is Down, Here's Why (7)
by bill＠incendium.com 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Scott; who are you defining as the POCA BOD ? The people inside that palace or the ones trying to get in ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message --------From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 2016-07-22 7:37 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com>, detomaso(a)detomasolist.com Cc: Mike Burnett <mbglobalsc(a)aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Website is Down, Here's Why (7) I support the POCA Board of Directors. > On Jul 22, 2016, at 6:11 AM, Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > My Fellow POCA Members, > > It is with deep regret that I must inform you of improprieties within your club which has resulted in the > > suspension of the POCA.Com website. > Most of you know that I have personally been the target of attacks since before assuming office as the President of POCA last Jan 1st. > It has been an incessant, organized and relentless campaign staged by a small handful of members resistant to change. I will name them > below, but first a little history so that you know where my motivation comes from and why I thought I could make a difference, I will be brief. > This club over the past two decades has hovered in the 700-800 member range, without fail, the club has attracted 30-60 new members each year > and lost an equal number, some years, like in 2014/15, losing over 150 members. Growth has never been possible because member retention > and member recruitment has ever been a priority. If your expenses and dues remain flat and new blood is not required, it just means that you > > basically have a stagnant and aging membership (like any older community church). > That is what POCA had, and a membership with over > > 60% of it's members over 60, and 20% over 70. > > Expenses have grown unchecked and the club spends more money than it take in. It also was dated with no updates in well over a decade. > > I saw all of this and thought with my particular skill sets I could make a difference. I immediately set about an agenda with 27 items and was told that I would never > > get half of that done in my full two year term, I did all of it in 5 months with the then current support of a progressive BOD. > Meanwhile, the person whom I defeated for President ( 77% - 23%) Rob D'Orazio, Larry Finch, Asa Jay Laughton, and others, most recently Gil Mares have > beleaguered me 24/7 with email, false accusations, lies, technical BS and simply mean and hateful emails. When the poca email forum was disabled to > make room for the new and improved poca.com ( which I built and designed after asking for help form these same people and none volunteered ), they went out > with Kurt Byrnes and created another email forum which is the most vile and disgusting, most toxic email list you could ever hope to not be apart of and it's primary > purpose has been to slander, libel, lie, and create dissension within POCA. None of those named so far have contributed anything to the club while I have been President > except hate and I was lucky enough to be their primary target, No worries, as many of you know, I work in show biz and politics, so i'm used to professional haters, > > a few amateurs didn't really affect me and the club has flourished. The first list that was supplied to me of members after 3 months of begging showed 808 > > POCA members, after culling out those who were deceased or expired that number of active, PAID POCA members was 718 active members. > > This club spent $6,000 last year sending publications to the dead and those not paying dues. > > As of yesterday, that number is now 867 active paid members. Many of the deadbeats paid up and we have added over 100 NEW members. > > A part of that effort resulted in the resignations of Jack DeRyke as Newsletter editor and Mike Haney as Profiles editor because I was finally able to get the BOD > > to listen to reason and change printers, we have been robbed by 10 years, paying $100,000 more for Black and White printing than FULL COLOR printing would cost. > > It is rumoured that there was more to that than I can confirm, but the result was without using THAT printer,, they stopped working. > > Josette D'Orazio resigned as POCA store manager after 2.5 years of service while selling 166 orders., she said that my vision of an expanded store (revenue producing )was not > > what she wanted to do and did not want to do the extra work as required. I understand and it was a nice parting. > > Why the emphasis on Money, the club runs on money, Printing alone was 17% more than all of our dues. > > The fun rally was supposed to make money, but they spent $20,205 on booze over 3 days, $47,000 in gross revenue and the club retained $1,600, > > I will not bore you with a detailed list of improvements, but there have been many, suffice it to say, the club has seen more new and different in the last 7 months than in the past 20 years. > > That was my goal and it was done while under constant attack. Most recently, worrying about the name of the forming "Southern Pride Panteras" chapter as being inappropriate > > ( clearly not knowing a large group of big cats is called a Pride, usually Lions, esp since Tigers, Leopards and Panthers are unlikely to gather in groups). Then it was us bring Tom Tjarrda > > here to represent the club on the national stage ( while we still can have him with us) and so many other ridiculous things that were truly none of their business, all while recruiting no members and > > contributing nothing positive to the club. > > WHY The website is down > > over the last month, the miscreants finally realized I was immune to their nonsense and just carried on doing what needed to be done to create a better POCA Membership Experience, > value added if you will, > > for each of you. > > Sso they changed focus and begin attacking John Buckman, Joe Stockett and Ed Mendez, all fine gentlemen and a solid part of the fist 6 months of progress we made. I certainly could not have > > done anything with their support. > > Yet, they are not me, Larry Finch and Gil Mares specifically ( the same man who spent $1,200 of club money as a part of the Fun Rally committee to travel to Las Vegas earlier this year and then > quit the committee leaving us in the lurch to name replacements in March for the event in May ) browbeat John, Joe and Ed to such a degree, the following has occurred. > Yesterday they called the web hosting company and expressed a desire to change the direction of the club. Last night against all the rules, bylaws, etc. > they had a impromptu BOD meeting ( without us) and essentially have started acoup to take over the club. > The website host company as a matter of policy and to protect the content of the website learned of this, thankfully preserving my 600+ hours of work) > and disabled the website to keep them from destroying it and changing it > > , erasing everything that I have built. > As you can imagine, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I are beside ourselves at this turn of events. > The first thing a third world dictator or anarchist does when taking over a government ( but a car club,? it seems so stupid doesn't it) is to disable the communications. > You are going to be sent a survey this morning, it has biu one question. > > Do you want me to fight and give you the club that you deserve, to continue these improvements and finish dragging us out of the 80's and into the 21st century? > > or > > Do you want us, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I to just give up and let the weak have the club and be at the continued direction of this very, very small group* of haters and bullies letting > the club revert back to the way it was for the last 20 years? > > You know I love a fight, you know I love to stand up to bullies, so do not worry about us, we can handle it if that is what you want. > * It should be noted that Rob D'Orazio attempted to have his small 30 member Chapter leave POCA last month and could not even manage to convince his own club to follow him. > > > If you indicate a fight, look for it to be epic. If you wish to return to the past, the three of us will resign ( as soon as Bob reid reimburses the $7,000 I am owed by the club for the new cards, > > > New POCA store items,and other expenses) > > > > I await the results of the survey, I apologize this has happened and I hope that you will indicate in strong numbers your displeasure at the actions of 10 people over the rest of us ( 857 ). > > > > Thank you, > > > > Michael Shortt > > STILL President > > POCA > -- > > > > > > > > Michael L. Shortt > Savannah, Georgia > michael(a)michaelshortt.com > 912-232-9390 > > > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you > have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you I support the POCA Board of Directors. On Jul 22, 2016, at 6:11 AM, Michael Shortt <[1]michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> wrote: My Fellow POCA Members, It is with deep regret that I must inform you of improprieties within your club which has resulted in the suspension of the [2]POCA.Com website. Most of you know that I have personally been the target of attacks since before assuming office as the President of POCA last Jan 1st. It has been an incessant, organized and relentless campaign staged by a small handful of members resistant to change. I will name them below, but first a little history so that you know where my motivation comes from and why I thought I could make a difference, I will be brief. This club over the past two decades has hovered in the 700-800 member range, without fail, the club has attracted 30-60 new members each year and lost an equal number, some years, like in 2014/15, losing over 150 members. Growth has never been possible because member retention and member recruitment has ever been a priority. If your expenses and dues remain flat and new blood is not required, it just means that you basically have a stagnant and aging membership (like any older community church). That is what POCA had, and a membership with over 60 % of it's members over 60, and 20% over 70. Expenses have grown unchecked and the club spends more money than it take in. It also was dated with no updates in well over a decade. I saw all of this and thought with my particular skill sets I could make a difference. I immediately set about an agenda with 27 items and was told that I would never get half of that done in my full two year term, I did all of it in 5 months with the then current support of a progressive BOD. Meanwhile, the person whom I defeated for President ( 77% - 23%) Rob D'Orazio, Larry Finch, Asa Jay Laughton, and others, most recently Gil Mares have beleaguered me 24/7 with email, false accusations, lies, technical BS and simply mean and hateful emails. When the poca email forum was disabled to make room for the new and improved [3]poca.com ( which I built and designed after asking for help form these same people and none volunteered ), they went out with Kurt Byrnes and created another email forum which is the most vile and disgusting, most toxic email list you could ever hope to not be apart of and it's primary purpose has been to slander, libel, lie, and create dissension within POCA. None of those named so far have contributed anything to the club while I have been President except hate and I was lucky enough to be their primary target, No worries, as many of you know, I work in show biz and politics, so i'm used to professional haters, a few amateurs didn't really affect me and the club has flourished. The first list that was supplied to me of members after 3 months of begging showed 808 POCA members, after culling out those who were deceased or expired that number of active, PAID POCA members was 718 active members. This club spent $6,000 last year sending publications to the dead and those not paying dues. As of yesterday, that number is now 867 active paid members. Many of the deadbeats paid up and we have added over 100 NEW members. A part of that effort resulted in the resignations of Jack DeRyke as Newsletter editor and Mike Haney as Profiles editor because I was finally able to get the BOD to listen to reason and change printers, we have been robbed by 10 years, paying $100,000 more for Black and White printing than FULL COLOR printing would cost. It is rumoured that there was more to that than I can confirm, but the result was without using THAT printer,, they stopped working. Josette D'Orazio resigned as POCA store manager after 2.5 years of service while selling 166 orders., she said that my vision of an expanded store (revenue producing )was not what she wanted to do and did not want to do the extra work as required. I understand and it was a nice parting. Why the emphasis on Money, the club runs on money, Printing alone was 17% more than all of our dues. The fun rally was supposed to make money, but they spent $20,205 on booze over 3 days, $47,000 in gross revenue and the club retained $1,600, I will not bore you with a detailed list of improvements, but there have been many, suffice it to say, the club has seen more new and different in the last 7 months than in the past 20 years. That was my goal and it was done while under constant attack. Most recently, worrying about the name of the forming "Southern Pride Panteras" chapter as being inappropriate ( clearly not knowing a large group of big cats is called a Pride, usually Lions, esp since Tigers, Leopards and Panthers are unlikely to gather in groups). Then it was us bring Tom Tjarrda here to represent the club on the national stage ( while we still can have him with us) and so many other ridiculous things that were truly none of their business, all while recruiting no members and contributing nothing positive to the club. WHY The website is down over the last month, the miscreants finally realized I was immune to their nonsense and just carried on doing what needed to be done to create a better POCA Membership Experience, value added if you will, for each of you. S so they changed focus and begin attacking John Buckman, Joe Stockett and Ed Mendez, all fine gentlemen and a solid part of the fist 6 months of progress we made. I certainly could not have done anything with their support. Yet, they are not me, Larry Finch and Gil Mares specifically ( the same man who spent $1,200 of club money as a part of the Fun Rally committee to travel to Las Vegas earlier this year and then quit the committee leaving us in the lurch to name replacements in March for the event in May ) browbeat John, Joe and Ed to such a degree, the following has occurred. Yesterday they called the web hosting company and expressed a desire to change the direction of the club. Last night against all the rules, bylaws, etc. they had a impromptu BOD meeting ( without us) and essentially have started acoup to take over the club. The website host company as a matter of policy and to protect the content of the website learned of this, thankfully preserving my 600+ hours of work) and disabled the website to keep them from destroying it and changing it , erasing everything that I have built. As you can imagine, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I are beside ourselves at this turn of events. The first thing a third world dictator or anarchist does when taking over a government ( but a car club,? it seems so stupid doesn't it) is to disable the communications. You are going to be sent a survey this morning, it has biu one question. Do you want me to fight and give you the club that you deserve, to continue these improvements and finish dragging us out of the 80's and into the 21st century? or Do you want us, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I to just give up and let the weak have the club and be at the continued direction of this very, very small group* of haters and bullies letting the club revert back to the way it was for the last 20 years? You know I love a fight, you know I love to stand up to bullies, so do not worry about us, we can handle it if that is what you want. * It should be noted that Rob D'Orazio attempted to have his small 30 member Chapter leave POCA last month and could not even manage to convince his own club to follow him. If you indicate a fight, look for it to be epic. If you wish to return to the past, the three of us will resign ( as soon as Bob reid reimburses the $7,000 I am owed by the club for the new cards, New POCA store items,and other expenses) I await the results of the survey, I apologize this has happened and I hope that you will indicate in strong numbers your displeasure at the actions of 10 people over the rest of us ( 857 ). Thank you, Michael Shortt STILL President POCA -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [4]michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 2. http://poca.com/ 3. http://poca.com/ 4. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Scott; who are you defining as the POCA BOD ? The people inside that palace or the ones trying to get in ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 2016-07-22 7:37 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com>, detomaso(a)detomasolist.com Cc: Mike Burnett <mbglobalsc(a)aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Website is Down, Here's Why (7) I support the POCA Board of Directors. > On Jul 22, 2016, at 6:11 AM, Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > My Fellow POCA Members, > > It is with deep regret that I must inform you of improprieties within your club which has resulted in the > > suspension of the POCA.Com website. > Most of you know that I have personally been the target of attacks since before assuming office as the President of POCA last Jan 1st. > It has been an incessant, organized and relentless campaign staged by a small handful of members resistant to change. I will name them > below, but first a little history so that you know where my motivation comes from and why I thought I could make a difference, I will be brief. > This club over the past two decades has hovered in the 700-800 member range, without fail, the club has attracted 30-60 new members each year > and lost an equal number, some years, like in 2014/15, losing over 150 members. Growth has never been possible because member retention > and member recruitment has ever been a priority. If your expenses and dues remain flat and new blood is not required, it just means that you > > basically have a stagnant and aging membership (like any older community church). > That is what POCA had, and a membership with over > > 60% of it's members over 60, and 20% over 70. > > Expenses have grown unchecked and the club spends more money than it take in. It also was dated with no updates in well over a decade. > > I saw all of this and thought with my particular skill sets I could make a difference. I immediately set about an agenda with 27 items and was told that I would never > > get half of that done in my full two year term, I did all of it in 5 months with the then current support of a progressive BOD. > Meanwhile, the person whom I defeated for President ( 77% - 23%) Rob D'Orazio, Larry Finch, Asa Jay Laughton, and others, most recently Gil Mares have > beleaguered me 24/7 with email, false accusations, lies, technical BS and simply mean and hateful emails. When the poca email forum was disabled to > make room for the new and improved poca.com ( which I built and designed after asking for help form these same people and none volunteered ), they went out > with Kurt Byrnes and created another email forum which is the most vile and disgusting, most toxic email list you could ever hope to not be apart of and it's primary > purpose has been to slander, libel, lie, and create dissension within POCA. None of those named so far have contributed anything to the club while I have been President > except hate and I was lucky enough to be their primary target, No worries, as many of you know, I work in show biz and politics, so i'm used to professional haters, > > a few amateurs didn't really affect me and the club has flourished. The first list that was supplied to me of members after 3 months of begging showed 808 > > POCA members, after culling out those who were deceased or expired that number of active, PAID POCA members was 718 active members. > > This club spent $6,000 last year sending publications to the dead and those not paying dues. > > As of yesterday, that number is now 867 active paid members. Many of the deadbeats paid up and we have added over 100 NEW members. > > A part of that effort resulted in the resignations of Jack DeRyke as Newsletter editor and Mike Haney as Profiles editor because I was finally able to get the BOD > > to listen to reason and change printers, we have been robbed by 10 years, paying $100,000 more for Black and White printing than FULL COLOR printing would cost. > > It is rumoured that there was more to that than I can confirm, but the result was without using THAT printer,, they stopped working. > > Josette D'Orazio resigned as POCA store manager after 2.5 years of service while selling 166 orders., she said that my vision of an expanded store (revenue producing )was not > > what she wanted to do and did not want to do the extra work as required. I understand and it was a nice parting. > > Why the emphasis on Money, the club runs on money, Printing alone was 17% more than all of our dues. > > The fun rally was supposed to make money, but they spent $20,205 on booze over 3 days, $47,000 in gross revenue and the club retained $1,600, > > I will not bore you with a detailed list of improvements, but there have been many, suffice it to say, the club has seen more new and different in the last 7 months than in the past 20 years. > > That was my goal and it was done while under constant attack. Most recently, worrying about the name of the forming "Southern Pride Panteras" chapter as being inappropriate > > ( clearly not knowing a large group of big cats is called a Pride, usually Lions, esp since Tigers, Leopards and Panthers are unlikely to gather in groups). Then it was us bring Tom Tjarrda > > here to represent the club on the national stage ( while we still can have him with us) and so many other ridiculous things that were truly none of their business, all while recruiting no members and > > contributing nothing positive to the club. > > WHY The website is down > > over the last month, the miscreants finally realized I was immune to their nonsense and just carried on doing what needed to be done to create a better POCA Membership Experience, > value added if you will, > > for each of you. > > Sso they changed focus and begin attacking John Buckman, Joe Stockett and Ed Mendez, all fine gentlemen and a solid part of the fist 6 months of progress we made. I certainly could not have > > done anything with their support. > > Yet, they are not me, Larry Finch and Gil Mares specifically ( the same man who spent $1,200 of club money as a part of the Fun Rally committee to travel to Las Vegas earlier this year and then > quit the committee leaving us in the lurch to name replacements in March for the event in May ) browbeat John, Joe and Ed to such a degree, the following has occurred. > Yesterday they called the web hosting company and expressed a desire to change the direction of the club. Last night against all the rules, bylaws, etc. > they had a impromptu BOD meeting ( without us) and essentially have started acoup to take over the club. > The website host company as a matter of policy and to protect the content of the website learned of this, thankfully preserving my 600+ hours of work) > and disabled the website to keep them from destroying it and changing it > > , erasing everything that I have built. > As you can imagine, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I are beside ourselves at this turn of events. > The first thing a third world dictator or anarchist does when taking over a government ( but a car club,? it seems so stupid doesn't it) is to disable the communications. > You are going to be sent a survey this morning, it has biu one question. > > Do you want me to fight and give you the club that you deserve, to continue these improvements and finish dragging us out of the 80's and into the 21st century? > > or > > Do you want us, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I to just give up and let the weak have the club and be at the continued direction of this very, very small group* of haters and bullies letting > the club revert back to the way it was for the last 20 years? > > You know I love a fight, you know I love to stand up to bullies, so do not worry about us, we can handle it if that is what you want. > * It should be noted that Rob D'Orazio attempted to have his small 30 member Chapter leave POCA last month and could not even manage to convince his own club to follow him. > > > If you indicate a fight, look for it to be epic. If you wish to return to the past, the three of us will resign ( as soon as Bob reid reimburses the $7,000 I am owed by the club for the new cards, > > > New POCA store items,and other expenses) > > > > I await the results of the survey, I apologize this has happened and I hope that you will indicate in strong numbers your displeasure at the actions of 10 people over the rest of us ( 857 ). > > > > Thank you, > > > > Michael Shortt > > STILL President > > POCA > -- > > > > > > > > Michael L. Shortt > Savannah, Georgia > michael(a)michaelshortt.com > 912-232-9390 > > > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you > have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you I support the POCA Board of Directors. On Jul 22, 2016, at 6:11 AM, Michael Shortt <[1]michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> wrote: My Fellow POCA Members, It is with deep regret that I must inform you of improprieties within your club which has resulted in the suspension of the [2]POCA.Com website. Most of you know that I have personally been the target of attacks since before assuming office as the President of POCA last Jan 1st. It has been an incessant, organized and relentless campaign staged by a small handful of members resistant to change. I will name them below, but first a little history so that you know where my motivation comes from and why I thought I could make a difference, I will be brief. This club over the past two decades has hovered in the 700-800 member range, without fail, the club has attracted 30-60 new members each year and lost an equal number, some years, like in 2014/15, losing over 150 members. Growth has never been possible because member retention and member recruitment has ever been a priority. If your expenses and dues remain flat and new blood is not required, it just means that you basically have a stagnant and aging membership (like any older community church). That is what POCA had, and a membership with over 60 % of it's members over 60, and 20% over 70. Expenses have grown unchecked and the club spends more money than it take in. It also was dated with no updates in well over a decade. I saw all of this and thought with my particular skill sets I could make a difference. I immediately set about an agenda with 27 items and was told that I would never get half of that done in my full two year term, I did all of it in 5 months with the then current support of a progressive BOD. Meanwhile, the person whom I defeated for President ( 77% - 23%) Rob D'Orazio, Larry Finch, Asa Jay Laughton, and others, most recently Gil Mares have beleaguered me 24/7 with email, false accusations, lies, technical BS and simply mean and hateful emails. When the poca email forum was disabled to make room for the new and improved [3]poca.com ( which I built and designed after asking for help form these same people and none volunteered ), they went out with Kurt Byrnes and created another email forum which is the most vile and disgusting, most toxic email list you could ever hope to not be apart of and it's primary purpose has been to slander, libel, lie, and create dissension within POCA. None of those named so far have contributed anything to the club while I have been President except hate and I was lucky enough to be their primary target, No worries, as many of you know, I work in show biz and politics, so i'm used to professional haters, a few amateurs didn't really affect me and the club has flourished. The first list that was supplied to me of members after 3 months of begging showed 808 POCA members, after culling out those who were deceased or expired that number of active, PAID POCA members was 718 active members. This club spent $6,000 last year sending publications to the dead and those not paying dues. As of yesterday, that number is now 867 active paid members. Many of the deadbeats paid up and we have added over 100 NEW members. A part of that effort resulted in the resignations of Jack DeRyke as Newsletter editor and Mike Haney as Profiles editor because I was finally able to get the BOD to listen to reason and change printers, we have been robbed by 10 years, paying $100,000 more for Black and White printing than FULL COLOR printing would cost. It is rumoured that there was more to that than I can confirm, but the result was without using THAT printer,, they stopped working. Josette D'Orazio resigned as POCA store manager after 2.5 years of service while selling 166 orders., she said that my vision of an expanded store (revenue producing )was not what she wanted to do and did not want to do the extra work as required. I understand and it was a nice parting. Why the emphasis on Money, the club runs on money, Printing alone was 17% more than all of our dues. The fun rally was supposed to make money, but they spent $20,205 on booze over 3 days, $47,000 in gross revenue and the club retained $1,600, I will not bore you with a detailed list of improvements, but there have been many, suffice it to say, the club has seen more new and different in the last 7 months than in the past 20 years. That was my goal and it was done while under constant attack. Most recently, worrying about the name of the forming "Southern Pride Panteras" chapter as being inappropriate ( clearly not knowing a large group of big cats is called a Pride, usually Lions, esp since Tigers, Leopards and Panthers are unlikely to gather in groups). Then it was us bring Tom Tjarrda here to represent the club on the national stage ( while we still can have him with us) and so many other ridiculous things that were truly none of their business, all while recruiting no members and contributing nothing positive to the club. WHY The website is down over the last month, the miscreants finally realized I was immune to their nonsense and just carried on doing what needed to be done to create a better POCA Membership Experience, value added if you will, for each of you. S so they changed focus and begin attacking John Buckman, Joe Stockett and Ed Mendez, all fine gentlemen and a solid part of the fist 6 months of progress we made. I certainly could not have done anything with their support. Yet, they are not me, Larry Finch and Gil Mares specifically ( the same man who spent $1,200 of club money as a part of the Fun Rally committee to travel to Las Vegas earlier this year and then quit the committee leaving us in the lurch to name replacements in March for the event in May ) browbeat John, Joe and Ed to such a degree, the following has occurred. Yesterday they called the web hosting company and expressed a desire to change the direction of the club. Last night against all the rules, bylaws, etc. they had a impromptu BOD meeting ( without us) and essentially have started acoup to take over the club. The website host company as a matter of policy and to protect the content of the website learned of this, thankfully preserving my 600+ hours of work) and disabled the website to keep them from destroying it and changing it , erasing everything that I have built. As you can imagine, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I are beside ourselves at this turn of events. The first thing a third world dictator or anarchist does when taking over a government ( but a car club,? it seems so stupid doesn't it) is to disable the communications. You are going to be sent a survey this morning, it has biu one question. Do you want me to fight and give you the club that you deserve, to continue these improvements and finish dragging us out of the 80's and into the 21st century? or Do you want us, Mike Burnett, Laurie Basile and I to just give up and let the weak have the club and be at the continued direction of this very, very small group* of haters and bullies letting the club revert back to the way it was for the last 20 years? You know I love a fight, you know I love to stand up to bullies, so do not worry about us, we can handle it if that is what you want. * It should be noted that Rob D'Orazio attempted to have his small 30 member Chapter leave POCA last month and could not even manage to convince his own club to follow him. If you indicate a fight, look for it to be epic. If you wish to return to the past, the three of us will resign ( as soon as Bob reid reimburses the $7,000 I am owed by the club for the new cards, New POCA store items,and other expenses) I await the results of the survey, I apologize this has happened and I hope that you will indicate in strong numbers your displeasure at the actions of 10 people over the rest of us ( 857 ). Thank you, Michael Shortt STILL President POCA -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [4]michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 2. http://poca.com/ 3. http://poca.com/ 4. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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NPC Something is up at POCA
by Mark Pinson 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Now I get a message "Website is not active" and "Website is offline" - is it just me? Glad I'm not an advertiser, but sorry I'm a member. Now I get a message "Website is not active" and "Website is offline" - is it just me? Glad I'm not an advertiser, but sorry I'm a member.

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website
by P6746＠aol.com 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Be aware that as of this morning POCA.com is up and running. Be aware that as of this morning POCA.com is up and running.

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Fuel injection
by Michael Barnes 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Hi all,I'm currently having my 351 c rebuilt with a few extras and am contemplating F.I. The concern I have is will any bodywork need to be cut? Thankyou for any replies in advance. Michael B Sent from my iPad

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Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster?
by Charles Engles 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

Dear Mr. Comedian: I am rolling on the proverbial floor laughing!!.. "the Cleveland makes a great rear window defroster"...or "how much horsepower does your rear window defroster have??"" I love it. Thanks for sharing. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of marshallgsmith Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 8:02 PM To: Forest Goodhart; James coyne; Rob Dumoulin Cc: Pantera Mail List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? My 351 Cleveland acts as a great rear window defroster.... albeit a bit pricy! M Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Forest Goodhart <forestg(a)att.net> Date: 7/21/16 1:00 PM (GMT-08:00) To: James coyne <tecnosound(a)hotmail.com>, Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Cc: Pantera Mail List <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? It was a law for some if not all European countries that rear window defrosters be a standard installation on all cars. As with any lawmaking body, common sense was an alien concept. Forest From: James coyne <tecnosound(a)hotmail.com> To: Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Cc: Pantera Mail List <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? Since I live in southern California , I have never needed to use my rear window defroster . As you mentioned , I also speculate that the engine would heat up the rear window as fast as the embedded wires in the glass . __________________________________________________________________ From: Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 9:52 AM To: James coyne Cc: Pantera Mail List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? Thanks for the reply. Now, part 2 of the question. With the engine right there acting like a big heater, does the window ever fog up? Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 [1]rob(a)dumoulins.net [2]www.kbsi.co [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 12:42 PM, James coyne <[4]tecnosound(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Rob , My GT5-S has a rear window defroster . The power switch is one of the 4 rocker switches on the center gauge panel . - Jim Coyne __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <[5]detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Rob Dumoulin <[6]rob(a)dumoulins.net> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 8:57 AM To: Pantera Mail List Subject: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? I saw a rear view picture of a GTS and it appears to have lines across the window. If so, where was the power switch located? References 1. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:tecnosound@hotmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. It was a law for some if not all European countries that rear window defrosters be a standard installation on all cars. As with any lawmaking body, common sense was an alien concept. Forest __________________________________________________________________ From: James coyne <tecnosound(a)hotmail.com> To: Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Cc: Pantera Mail List <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? Since I live in southern California , I have never needed to use my rear window defroster . As you mentioned , I also speculate that the engine would heat up the rear window as fast as the embedded wires in the glass . __________________________________________________________________ From: Rob Dumoulin <[1]rob(a)dumoulins.net> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 9:52 AM To: James coyne Cc: Pantera Mail List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? Thanks for the reply. Now, part 2 of the question. With the engine right there acting like a big heater, does the window ever fog up? Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 [1][2]rob(a)dumoulins.net [2]www.kbsi.co [3][3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 12:42 PM, James coyne <[4][4]tecnosound(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Rob , My GT5-S has a rear window defroster . The power switch is one of the 4 rocker switches on the center gauge panel . - Jim Coyne __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <[5][5]detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Rob Dumoulin <[6][6]rob(a)dumoulins.net> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 8:57 AM To: Pantera Mail List Subject: [DeTomaso] Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster? I saw a rear view picture of a GTS and it appears to have lines across the window. If so, where was the power switch located? References 1. mailto:[7]rob@dumoulins.net 2. [8]http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. [9]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:[10]tecnosound@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[11]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[12]rob@dumoulins.net _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [13]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:tecnosound@hotmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 7. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 8. http://www.kbsi.co/ 9. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 10. mailto:tecnosound@hotmail.com 11. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Did some Panteras come with a rear window defroster?
by Rob Dumoulin 22 Jul '16

22 Jul '16

I saw a rear view picture of a GTS and it appears to have lines across the window. If so, where was the power switch located? I saw a rear view picture of a GTS and it appears to have lines across the window. If so, where was the power switch located?

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