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Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis stiffening kit install
by Ed Mendez 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

Mine is a useful mount for my amplifier in the front trunk. And I have enough room left over for a few cleaning supplies and car duster. :-) Luggage goes on the girlfriend's lap doesn't it? But seriously, the kit does come with stiffeners underneath as well so when all 4 are combined doesn't that help in the overall stiffness? Thanks, Ed > On Sep 06, 2016, at 08:37 AM, Larry Stock <larrys(a)panteraparts.com> wrote: > > If one actually was an engineer and analyzed this brace, it is utterly > useless. It braces the shear wall construction already built into the > upper A-Arm mounting points. Not much movement here with the factory job. > Lots of help is needed down below to take the twist out of the lower A-Arm > supports. Larry > > On 9/6/16, 8:18 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift" > <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com on behalf of > julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> I could start by saying leave it i the corner of the garage, unless you >> are building and out and out racer.... it is only purpose in a street >> car is to further limit your wife's luggage allowance, although >> maybe that could be deemed a positive if she is then limited to only >> taking briefs and bras... >> >> Others seem to have managed to bolt it in, sitting very low in the >> trunk (less than an inch between brace and trunk floor). To be >> functional it should sit directly behind the upper shock mounts. >> Julian >> __________________________________________________________________ >> >> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of >> John McKee <johnmckee(a)cox.net> >> Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 10:28 PM >> To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis stiffening kit install >> >> I am currently working on the front trunk area and I am trying to >> figure out >> the best way to mount the triangular upper brace (the part sold by >> Precision >> ProFormance). The mounting plates have four bolt holes but it looks >> like I >> would not be able to get bolts to work as they would conflict with the >> upper >> suspension mounting rail. I am thinking the best solution may be to >> plug >> weld those holes from the trunk side. Can anyone share their experience >> installing these plates? >> >> Thank you, >> >> John >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >> the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve the archiving of list messages. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Mine is a useful mount for my amplifier in the front trunk. And I have enough room left over for a few cleaning supplies and car duster. :-) Luggage goes on the girlfriend's lap doesn't it? But seriously, the kit does come with stiffeners underneath as well so when all 4 are combined doesn't that help in the overall stiffness? Thanks, Ed IMG_0011.JPG IMG_0012.JPG IMG_7245.jpg On Sep 06, 2016, at 08:37 AM, Larry Stock <[1]larrys(a)panteraparts.com> wrote: If one actually was an engineer and analyzed this brace, it is utterly useless. It braces the shear wall construction already built into the upper A-Arm mounting points. Not much movement here with the factory job. Lots of help is needed down below to take the twist out of the lower A-Arm supports. Larry On 9/6/16, 8:18 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift" <[2]detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: I could start by saying leave it i the corner of the garage, unless you are building and out and out racer.... it is only purpose in a street car is to further limit your wife's luggage allowance, although maybe that could be deemed a positive if she is then limited to only taking briefs and bras... Others seem to have managed to bolt it in, sitting very low in the trunk (less than an inch between brace and trunk floor). To be functional it should sit directly behind the upper shock mounts. Julian __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <[4]detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of John McKee <[5]johnmckee(a)cox.net> Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 10:28 PM To: [6]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis stiffening kit install I am currently working on the front trunk area and I am trying to figure out the best way to mount the triangular upper brace (the part sold by Precision ProFormance). The mounting plates have four bolt holes but it looks like I would not be able to get bolts to work as they would conflict with the upper suspension mounting rail. I am thinking the best solution may be to plug weld those holes from the trunk side. Can anyone share their experience installing these plates? Thank you, John _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [7]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [9]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:johnmckee@cox.net 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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Chassis stiffening kit install
by John McKee 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

I am currently working on the front trunk area and I am trying to figure out the best way to mount the triangular upper brace (the part sold by Precision ProFormance). The mounting plates have four bolt holes but it looks like I would not be able to get bolts to work as they would conflict with the upper suspension mounting rail. I am thinking the best solution may be to plug weld those holes from the trunk side. Can anyone share their experience installing these plates? Thank you, John I am currently working on the front trunk area and I am trying to figure out the best way to mount the triangular upper brace (the part sold by Precision ProFormance). The mounting plates have four bolt holes but it looks like I would not be able to get bolts to work as they would conflict with the upper suspension mounting rail. I am thinking the best solution may be to plug weld those holes from the trunk side. Can anyone share their experience installing these plates? Thank you, John

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Re: [DeTomaso] 1972 De Tomaso Pantera on ebay $30-$40k
by Ed Mendez 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

haha, I'm finding that out first hand. On Sep 05, 2016, at 01:39 PM, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew(a)aol.com> wrote: Ed, It sure looks like it. This car is a bit of a mess....restoration candidate, bring bags of money. :) Mike Sent from my iPad On Sep 5, 2016, at 1:32 PM, Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now! De Tomaso: Other http://r.ebay.com/dK5SRm Did they cut a whole in the rear quarter for a gas filler? _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. haha, I'm finding that out first hand. On Sep 05, 2016, at 01:39 PM, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew(a)aol.com> wrote: Ed, It sure looks like it. This car is a bit of a mess....restoration candidate, bring bags of money. :) Mike Sent from my iPad On Sep 5, 2016, at 1:32 PM, Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now! De Tomaso: Other [1]http://r.ebay.com/dK5SRm Did they cut a whole in the rear quarter for a gas filler? _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://r.ebay.com/dK5SRm 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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Re: [DeTomaso] Flooded Pantera in Baton Rouge
by cengles＠cox.net 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

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Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis stiffening kit install
by John McKee 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

I know, I know.... Bobby has always been super nice and helpful. I just tend to not have the spare moment during regular working hours to stop and think Pantera related tasks. But the forum never sleeps! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID On Sep 5, 2016 10:48 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > John, > > At the risk of asking the obvious--what does Precision Proformamce say? > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 5, 2016, at 22:28, "John McKee" <johnmckee(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > I am currently working on the front trunk area and I am trying to > > figure out the best way to mount the triangular upper brace (the part > > sold by Precision ProFormance). The mounting plates have four bolt > > holes but it looks like I would not be able to get bolts to work as > > they would conflict with the upper suspension mounting rail. I am > > thinking the best solution may be to plug weld those holes from the > > trunk side. Can anyone share their experience installing these plates? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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Flooded Pantera in Baton Rouge
by Charles Engles 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

Dear Forum, An insurance adjustor friend of a Pantera friend told him that this Pantera is flooded and has been totaled and is available with a salvage title in Baton Rouge. It appears to be pretty stock. One picture I did not include shows the tub with a space saver spare plus the red inflator. The pictures seem to show a high water mark above the window sills. It seems that this car is *supposed* to be available for online auction through: www.copart.com I have tried searching for it three times and can’t find it on their site although there are lots of flood damaged and other cars there, i.e. Ferraris and Maseratis, etc, in small numbers. Supposedly the value on the car was said to be “$10,000”. However, all the cars on the site are up for bid with a few “drivers” also available for a “buy it now” price. Finally, it seems that you have to register and pay a fee before you can bid. However, if you’re keen for a “deal”, then perhaps calling the Baton Rouge Copart salvage yard might be advantageous. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles Dear Forum, An insurance adjustor friend of a Pantera friend told him that this Pantera is flooded and has been totaled and is available with a salvage title in Baton Rouge. It appears to be pretty stock. One picture I did not include shows the tub with a space saver spare plus the red inflator. The pictures seem to show a high water mark above the window sills. It seems that this car is *supposed* to be available for online auction through: [1]www.copart.com I have tried searching for it three times and can't find it on their site although there are lots of flood damaged and other cars there, i.e. Ferraris and Maseratis, etc, in small numbers. Supposedly the value on the car was said to be "$10,000". However, all the cars on the site are up for bid with a few "drivers" also available for a "buy it now" price. Finally, it seems that you have to register and pay a fee before you can bid. However, if you're keen for a "deal", then perhaps calling the Baton Rouge Copart salvage yard might be advantageous. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles References 1. http://www.copart.com/

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1972 De Tomaso Pantera on ebay $30-$40k
by Ed Mendez 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now! De Tomaso: Other http://r.ebay.com/dK5SRm Did they cut a whole in the rear quarter for a gas filler? Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now! De Tomaso: Other http://r.ebay.com/dK5SRm Did they cut a whole in the rear quarter for a gas filler?

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Pantera for sale: Pantera VIN 5500
by Charles Engles 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

Dear Forum, There is a Pantera for sale in McAlester. The pictures are on Chuck Melton's website under VIN 5500. I am including the email from Feb 3rd. At that time the owner had a price of $150k. I just spoke with her that she has lowered her price to $80k. If you have questions about the car or you would like to contact the owner in McAlester, Oklahoma, then email me. It is a solid Pantera. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: Charles Engles [mailto:cengles@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 8:24 PM To: 'The DeTomaso Registry Guy' Dear Chuck, The story on the car is that it was bought allegedly at the Peyton Lincoln-Mercury dealership in Long Beach, California, which Peter Revson was associated with. It was sold to George Embry, who sold it to the current owner in 1975. She has kept it all these years. It has about 38,500 miles. It has never seen rain. It was last serviced at Panteras by Wilkinson in 1997. It has always been kept covered and garaged. It was in Long Beach until 1997 and has been in Oklahoma since then. It is not completely stock. It does have aftermarket parts, some of which are from Peter Revson: the front spoiler, the pinstriping. There are aftermarket DeTomaso valve covers and an air cleaner. The engine sounds like it no longer has a stock factory cam and it does have after market headers and exhaust. The rest of the car is in mint condition and stock original. The driver's seat was showing some wear on the left side and it was switched to the passenger side. Although the car does have an L bumper and a single pod dash a an external side fill gas cap, it does have pre L seat belts. The underside is exceptionally clean and there is no rust. The paint condition is excellent. The car starts immediately and rapidly settles into a steady idea with a slight edge to it from the cam and exhaust. The owner's price is $150,000. Direct inquiries to Chuck Engles Dear Forum, There is a Pantera for sale in McAlester. The pictures are on Chuck Melton's website under VIN 5500. I am including the email from Feb 3^rd. At that time the owner had a price of $150k. I just spoke with her that she has lowered her price to $80k. If you have questions about the car or you would like to contact the owner in McAlester, Oklahoma, then email me. It is a solid Pantera. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: Charles Engles [mailto:cengles@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 8:24 PM To: 'The DeTomaso Registry Guy' Dear Chuck, The story on the car is that it was bought allegedly at the Peyton Lincoln-Mercury dealership in Long Beach, California, which Peter Revson was associated with. It was sold to George Embry, who sold it to the current owner in 1975. She has kept it all these years. It has about 38,500 miles. It has never seen rain. It was last serviced at Panteras by Wilkinson in 1997. It has always been kept covered and garaged. It was in Long Beach until 1997 and has been in Oklahoma since then. It is not completely stock. It does have aftermarket parts, some of which are from Peter Revson: the front spoiler, the pinstriping. There are aftermarket DeTomaso valve covers and an air cleaner. The engine sounds like it no longer has a stock factory cam and it does have after market headers and exhaust. The rest of the car is in mint condition and stock original. The driver's seat was showing some wear on the left side and it was switched to the passenger side. Although the car does have an L bumper and a single pod dash a an external side fill gas cap, it does have pre L seat belts. The underside is exceptionally clean and there is no rust. The paint condition is excellent. The car starts immediately and rapidly settles into a steady idea with a slight edge to it from the cam and exhaust. The owner's price is $150,000. Direct inquiries to Chuck Engles

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NPC: GoPro help
by Mike Thomas 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

Trying to set up my GoPro to playback on my Kindle - if you have a similar combination, please contact me off forum. Can't seem to get the Kindle to find the GoPro. Thanks in advance Mike Thomas Pres., Panteras Northwest Yellow '74 #6328

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Re: [DeTomaso] help searching (powder coat campys)
by MikeLDrew＠aol.com 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

In a message dated 5/26/16 7:58:20 PM, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com writes: > Larry, > > I've still got the story on my computer. I can post it when I land > tonight. > >>>Found it, and text is posted below. It's worth mentioning that I have a set of Larry's wheels on the front of my car now. However, he goofed up and selected a way wrong color (DOH) so I had to have them painted atop the powdercoating. They are bulletproof now I think! Going forward, I would hope anybody who is contemplating doing this sort of thing will take the extra time to research the color and ensure tha it is what you want it to be.... BTW one of the really nice things about this list format is that I can whip out my phone while dashing through the airport between flights and quickly get caught up, whereas with a web-based forum I would realistically have to stop and break out my computer, get onto a WiFi network, and then wait for ages for huge pages to load. So thank goodness that the REAL forum is alive and well! Article text below. Note that this was written almost 20 years ago, and at this point should serve as the starting point for a conversation rather than being treated as though the words were taken from a burning bush.... Cheers! Mike ==== Restoring Magnesium Campagnolo Wheels the Right Way The Pantera was delivered wearing Campagnolo wheels cast in exotic magnesium alloy. Campagnolo is a very old company in Italy, and the methods they used were the tried-and-true types right out of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Thus, our magnesium wheels were cast in molds hand-carved from mahogany! Naturally, wooden molds, however hard, could only withstand a limited number of times that molten metal could be poured into them before sharp details were blurred. Eventually, these details were lost, and casting quality began to drop off as well so the mold would be scrapped. This short life of the wheel molds may in fact be the reason there are at least four separate models of Pantera wheels that are known to have been shipped at various times during the life of the DeTomaso/Ford joint project in the '70's. In the meantime, Campagnolo as a company was going through changes. The light-alloy bicycle accessory business was spun off in the '70's, the wheel company was sold (but kept its name the first two times), and new management were brought in after being taken over by Technomagnesio (one of Campagnolo's chief rivals in the alloy-wheel business). Finally, the magnesium wheels made late in the Pantera project were pressure-die-cast. This method is where the molten metal is literally pumped into steel dies under relatively high pressure. The metallic dies are much more expensive than the old mahogany ones, but they also last much longer, quality is higher and the higher pressure during the metal solidification results in a denser casting with fewer, smaller pore areas. Intuitively one would expect that the very late Campy wheels are stronger for these reasons. Magnesium, the lightest structural metal known, has one desirable and several not-so-desirable attributes. On the plus side, it is only 65% as heavy as aluminum while having as much strength as the better aluminum casting alloys, meaning it can be heat-treated and welded like aluminum. On the debit side, magnesium is a 'reactive' metal: when magnesium contacts plain water or even moisture in the air, a chemical reaction occurs that results in the outgassing of hydrogen gas from the water molecule; the l eftover oxygen combines with magnesium to produce the familiar white mag-oxide powder. If left exposed, Campy wheels will literally dissolve into powder! At 650 degrees Centigrade, magnesium burns in air at such high temperatures that most substances in contact with it melt or burn as well. Large chunks are difficult to catch on fire but grindings or shavings should be treated like gunpowder-and definitely kept dry! Fine mag metal powder will react hydrogen gas off so quickly, the gas spontaneously lights off, catching the rest of the metal on fire. Naturally, pouring water on a mag fire will result in a hydrogen explosion (remember the Hindenburg?) and even more fire! Sand or dry-chemical extinguishers are the only hope for stopping a magnesium fire. In fact, it may be best to simply stand back and let it burn itself out.... Magnesium alloys have the property of age-hardening-that is, a mag casting will get harder and progressively more brittle as it gets older, regardless of its use or storage. Magnesium expands some 2-1/2 times as much as aluminum when heated. This means that for best results, the casting must be physically restrained-bolted down-before heating or it will literally 'crawl away' from the welding torch! And due to its very light density, magnesium castings, especially open-mold castings, tend to be porous, or at least have very large crystalline areas. All wheels flex and bend slightly in use. Magnesium flexes too, but the flex-energy is not dissipated 100%. Instead, stresses build up inside the castings, eventually concentrating at an imperfection such as a casting pore or a crystal grain. Such an area will eventually separate and connect with another pore or weak spot. A few more cycles of this and you have a crack growing in the casting, with the accumulated stresses concentrating at the point-ends of the crack. This process works exactly like a micro pry-bar! Detecting cracks in mag castings cannot be done by conventional magneflux: magnesium is totally non-magnetic. So a fluorescent dye called Zyglow is dissolved in a very thin solvent like petroleum ether. The casting is dipped in the solvent, left for a few moments, then wiped off. A spray cleaner is used to further clean the casting. Any cracks or deep pores will retain some of the dye, however. Illuminating the casting with near-ultraviolet light will show up any retained dye. Porous, rough castings like our wheels require someone talented in the art of interpreting florescent patterns that show up. The layman could look at a perfectly good cast-mag wheel glowing in numerous areas and be afraid to mount a tire on it! X-ray casting checks can also be done but are even more expensive, require more highly trained operators to evaluate the film records and are sometimes inconclusive, requiring a dye-check to be sure! Cracked magnesium castings should only be welded after stop-drilling both ends of a detected crack. This is a technique whereby the crack is outlined and a small hole drilled through the casting just in front of each end of the crack, not in the crack itself. This is so when welding or grinding heat is applied, any growth of the crack will expand into the drill-hole rather than continuing to tear the base metal apart at the front of the crack. Then, the entire cracked area is V-ground away to prevent the crack from progressing sideways, and to provide clean metal to weld on. The V-groove is also necessary since vertical cracks in thicker sections don't weld very well. Remember the cautions regarding the dangers of accumulations of grinding or drilling chips from magnesium repairs! Magnesium welding is best done only by an expert, with lots of experience and understanding of the nuances of magnesium welding. The incautious can very easily start a fire that will literally consume everything in its reach-including your house, garage and Pantera! And surprisingly enough, the act of welding or grinding a casting induces even more stresses, so the repaired casting must be stress-annealed. This literally bakes out the accumulated stresses or any additional ones from the repairs and results in a like-new wheel that has many more years of safe driving left. Fortunately, the annealing temperature (recommended by aerospace users of magnesium) is only 350-375 degrees Fahrenheit. The piece is put into an oven, heated to 350-375 degrees, held for an hour or so, then very slowly cooled to room temperature-the slower the better! Ideally, the heavily insulated oven is simply turned off and left closed until the next morning. If the oven cannot be turned off, wrap the hot casting in thick blankets and leave it undisturbed for at least several hours. Note-this will discolor any silver finishes painted onto the wheels. Do the decorative painting last! After the wheel is cast or weld-repaired, if it is to be painted it must first be protected from moisture in the air by painting it with a zinc chromate solution. The zinc chromate reacts with the magnesium to produce a barrier layer that tends to be self-healing to small scratches-the zinc chromate literally spreads across the scratch, again protecting the underlying metal; not as well as a full-thickness coating, but at least there is some protection! Zinc chromate is widely used in the aviation industry, and should be available at better paint stores, as well as at any municipal airport repair facility. Bare wheels that are simply painted with conventional primers and paint may trap moisture between the wheel and paint, resulting in corrosion under the paint, which eventually shows up in the form of bubbles in the paint. In recent years, it has become very fashionable to powdercoat (or powderpaint) wheels rather than painting them. The resultant finish can be superior to paint, but only if the wheel is correctly prepared. Some people simply strip the old paint and then apply a coating of powderpaint, without actually repairing any damage to the surface, or checking the structural integrity of the wheel. When powderpainted in this fashion, often the wheel will out-gas during the painting process, leading to bubbles in the finish. Larry Stock of the Pantera Parts Connection found himself with a collection of Campy wheels from various sources, some of dubious ancestry (including Mike Drew's old wheels!) Even though modern 17” wheels and tires are all the rage right now, he has found there are a select group of individuals who are looking for the best possible original factory wheels, and he set about taking these cast-offs and bringing them up to better-than-new specification. The wheels were first carefully bead-blasted to remove all the old paint and underlying zinc chromate. The blasting process also removed any oxidation which might have accumulated. Afterwards, the wheels were annealed at 375 degrees in a large oven, which was allowed to slowly cool overnight. >From there, the wheels were hauled to a sophisticated testing facility used by NASA and Lockheed Aerospace. The wheels were dipped in a liquid penetrant (Zyglow), then rinsed off and evaluated for possible cracks and imperfections. Any such imperfections were clearly marked, and one wheel was condemned and ultimately discarded. Once the faults were identified, the wheels were then transported to a NASA welder who carefully welded up damaged areas of the wheels. While none of the wheels exhibited any significant cracks, several had large hunks missing from the lip of the rim. These were caused by the fitment of conventional wheel weights. The metal in the wheel weights reacts with the magnesium, turning it to powder. Tire-shop monkeys who traditionally remove old weights by hitting them with a hammer as often as not remove the lip of the wheel as well! For these reasons, whenever possible stick-on wheel weights should be used instead of clamp-on weights. The welder went out of his way to put excess material back into the wheels, so now they needed to be brought back into spec. But before any machining would take place, they were returned to the oven and annealed again, to restore whatever strength might have been compromised by the application of high heat in only one area of the wheel. Larry then took them to his fully-equipped machine shop. A rear axle/brake disc/stud assembly was inserted into a large lathe, and the wheels were bolted to the axle. Then sophisticated cutting tools were used to carefully remove the excess material and restore the original contours of the wheel. The average wheel required two full hours of machining in this fashion. Of course, machining introduces its own heat factors, so back into the oven they went! After annealing, the powderpainters sprayed on silver powderpaint, which had been carefully color- and texture-matched with an original, mint-condition factory painted wheel. Back into the oven to bake the silver paint on, and anneal the wheels again! Finally, a protective clear-coat was powderpainted atop the silver, then the wheels went back into the oven for the final time. The resulting wheels are absolutely flawless, exquisitely beautiful, and literally much better and stronger than new. The entire process was extremely labor-intensive and took almost six weeks to accomplish. Larry now has several full sets of early-style (Pre-L) wheels and a few L-model wheels in stock, which he'll sell for $325 each with the exchange of your old wheels. Alternately, he can have your existing wheels repaired for $325 each. Thanks to Larry Stock for providing the step-by-step photographs of the Pantera wheel restoration process. In a message dated 5/26/16 7:58:20 PM, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com writes: Larry, I've still got the story on my computer. I can post it when I land tonight. >>>Found it, and text is posted below. It's worth mentioning that I have a set of Larry's wheels on the front of my car now. However, he goofed up and selected a way wrong color (DOH) so I had to have them painted atop the powdercoating. They are bulletproof now I think! Going forward, I would hope anybody who is contemplating doing this sort of thing will take the extra time to research the color and ensure tha it is what you want it to be.... BTW one of the really nice things about this list format is that I can whip out my phone while dashing through the airport between flights and quickly get caught up, whereas with a web-based forum I would realistically have to stop and break out my computer, get onto a WiFi network, and then wait for ages for huge pages to load. So thank goodness that the REAL forum is alive and well! Article text below. Note that this was written almost 20 years ago, and at this point should serve as the starting point for a conversation rather than being treated as though the words were taken from a burning bush.... Cheers! Mike ==== Restoring Magnesium Campagnolo Wheels the Right Way The Pantera was delivered wearing Campagnolo wheels cast in exotic magnesium alloy. Campagnolo is a very old company in Italy, and the methods they used were the tried-and-true types right out of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Thus, our magnesium wheels were cast in molds hand-carved from mahogany! Naturally, wooden molds, however hard, could only withstand a limited number of times that molten metal could be poured into them before sharp details were blurred. Eventually, these details were lost, and casting quality began to drop off as well so the mold would be scrapped. This short life of the wheel molds may in fact be the reason there are at least four separate models of Pantera wheels that are known to have been shipped at various times during the life of the DeTomaso/Ford joint project in the '70's. In the meantime, Campagnolo as a company was going through changes. The light-alloy bicycle accessory business was spun off in the '70's, the wheel company was sold (but kept its name the first two times), and new management were brought in after being taken over by Technomagnesio (one of Campagnolo's chief rivals in the alloy-wheel business). Finally, the magnesium wheels made late in the Pantera project were pressure-die-cast. This method is where the molten metal is literally pumped into steel dies under relatively high pressure. The metallic dies are much more expensive than the old mahogany ones, but they also last much longer, quality is higher and the higher pressure during the metal solidification results in a denser casting with fewer, smaller pore areas. Intuitively one would expect that the very late Campy wheels are stronger for these reasons. Magnesium, the lightest structural metal known, has one desirable and several not-so-desirable attributes. On the plus side, it is only 65% as heavy as aluminum while having as much strength as the better aluminum casting alloys, meaning it can be heat-treated and welded like aluminum. On the debit side, magnesium is a 'reactive' metal: when magnesium contacts plain water or even moisture in the air, a chemical reaction occurs that results in the outgassing of hydrogen gas from the water molecule; the leftover oxygen combines with magnesium to produce the familiar white mag-oxide powder. If left exposed, Campy wheels will literally dissolve into powder! At 650 degrees Centigrade, magnesium burns in air at such high temperatures that most substances in contact with it melt or burn as well. Large chunks are difficult to catch on fire but grindings or shavings should be treated like gunpowder-and definitely kept dry! Fine mag metal powder will react hydrogen gas off so quickly, the gas spontaneously lights off, catching the rest of the metal on fire. Naturally, pouring water on a mag fire will result in a hydrogen explosion (remember the Hindenburg?) and even more fire! Sand or dry-chemical extinguishers are the only hope for stopping a magnesium fire. In fact, it may be best to simply stand back and let it burn itself out.... Magnesium alloys have the property of age-hardening-that is, a mag casting will get harder and progressively more brittle as it gets older, regardless of its use or storage. Magnesium expands some 2-1/2 times as much as aluminum when heated. This means that for best results, the casting must be physically restrained-bolted down-before heating or it will literally 'crawl away' from the welding torch! And due to its very light density, magnesium castings, especially open-mold castings, tend to be porous, or at least have very large crystalline areas. All wheels flex and bend slightly in use. Magnesium flexes too, but the flex-energy is not dissipated 100%. Instead, stresses build up inside the castings, eventually concentrating at an imperfection such as a casting pore or a crystal grain. Such an area will eventually separate and connect with another pore or weak spot. A few more cycles of this and you have a crack growing in the casting, with the accumulated stresses concentrating at the point-ends of the crack. This process works exactly like a micro pry-bar! Detecting cracks in mag castings cannot be done by conventional magneflux: magnesium is totally non-magnetic. So a fluorescent dye called Zyglow is dissolved in a very thin solvent like petroleum ether. The casting is dipped in the solvent, left for a few moments, then wiped off. A spray cleaner is used to further clean the casting. Any cracks or deep pores will retain some of the dye, however. Illuminating the casting with near-ultraviolet light will show up any retained dye. Porous, rough castings like our wheels require someone talented in the art of interpreting florescent patterns that show up. The layman could look at a perfectly good cast-mag wheel glowing in numerous areas and be afraid to mount a tire on it! X-ray casting checks can also be done but are even more expensive, require more highly trained operators to evaluate the film records and are sometimes inconclusive, requiring a dye-check to be sure! Cracked magnesium castings should only be welded after stop-drilling both ends of a detected crack. This is a technique whereby the crack is outlined and a small hole drilled through the casting just in front of each end of the crack, not in the crack itself. This is so when welding or grinding heat is applied, any growth of the crack will expand into the drill-hole rather than continuing to tear the base metal apart at the front of the crack. Then, the entire cracked area is V-ground away to prevent the crack from progressing sideways, and to provide clean metal to weld on. The V-groove is also necessary since vertical cracks in thicker sections don't weld very well. Remember the cautions regarding the dangers of accumulations of grinding or drilling chips from magnesium repairs! Magnesium welding is best done only by an expert, with lots of experience and understanding of the nuances of magnesium welding. The incautious can very easily start a fire that will literally consume everything in its reach-including your house, garage and Pantera! And surprisingly enough, the act of welding or grinding a casting induces even more stresses, so the repaired casting must be stress-annealed. This literally bakes out the accumulated stresses or any additional ones from the repairs and results in a like-new wheel that has many more years of safe driving left. Fortunately, the annealing temperature (recommended by aerospace users of magnesium) is only 350-375 degrees Fahrenheit. The piece is put into an oven, heated to 350-375 degrees, held for an hour or so, then very slowly cooled to room temperature-the slower the better! Ideally, the heavily insulated oven is simply turned off and left closed until the next morning. If the oven cannot be turned off, wrap the hot casting in thick blankets and leave it undisturbed for at least several hours. Note-this will discolor any silver finishes painted onto the wheels. Do the decorative painting last! After the wheel is cast or weld-repaired, if it is to be painted it must first be protected from moisture in the air by painting it with a zinc chromate solution. The zinc chromate reacts with the magnesium to produce a barrier layer that tends to be self-healing to small scratches-the zinc chromate literally spreads across the scratch, again protecting the underlying metal; not as well as a full-thickness coating, but at least there is some protection! Zinc chromate is widely used in the aviation industry, and should be available at better paint stores, as well as at any municipal airport repair facility. Bare wheels that are simply painted with conventional primers and paint may trap moisture between the wheel and paint, resulting in corrosion under the paint, which eventually shows up in the form of bubbles in the paint. In recent years, it has become very fashionable to powdercoat (or powderpaint) wheels rather than painting them. The resultant finish can be superior to paint, but only if the wheel is correctly prepared. Some people simply strip the old paint and then apply a coating of powderpaint, without actually repairing any damage to the surface, or checking the structural integrity of the wheel. When powderpainted in this fashion, often the wheel will out-gas during the painting process, leading to bubbles in the finish. Larry Stock of the Pantera Parts Connection found himself with a collection of Campy wheels from various sources, some of dubious ancestry (including Mike Drew's old wheels!) Even though modern 17a wheels and tires are all the rage right now, he has found there are a select group of individuals who are looking for the best possible original factory wheels, and he set about taking these cast-offs and bringing them up to better-than-new specification. The wheels were first carefully bead-blasted to remove all the old paint and underlying zinc chromate. The blasting process also removed any oxidation which might have accumulated. Afterwards, the wheels were annealed at 375 degrees in a large oven, which was allowed to slowly cool overnight. From there, the wheels were hauled to a sophisticated testing facility used by NASA and Lockheed Aerospace. The wheels were dipped in a liquid penetrant (Zyglow), then rinsed off and evaluated for possible cracks and imperfections. Any such imperfections were clearly marked, and one wheel was condemned and ultimately discarded. Once the faults were identified, the wheels were then transported to a NASA welder who carefully welded up damaged areas of the wheels. While none of the wheels exhibited any significant cracks, several had large hunks missing from the lip of the rim. These were caused by the fitment of conventional wheel weights. The metal in the wheel weights reacts with the magnesium, turning it to powder. Tire-shop monkeys who traditionally remove old weights by hitting them with a hammer as often as not remove the lip of the wheel as well! For these reasons, whenever possible stick-on wheel weights should be used instead of clamp-on weights. The welder went out of his way to put excess material back into the wheels, so now they needed to be brought back into spec. But before any machining would take place, they were returned to the oven and annealed again, to restore whatever strength might have been compromised by the application of high heat in only one area of the wheel. Larry then took them to his fully-equipped machine shop. A rear axle/brake disc/stud assembly was inserted into a large lathe, and the wheels were bolted to the axle. Then sophisticated cutting tools were used to carefully remove the excess material and restore the original contours of the wheel. The average wheel required two full hours of machining in this fashion. Of course, machining introduces its own heat factors, so back into the oven they went! After annealing, the powderpainters sprayed on silver powderpaint, which had been carefully color- and texture-matched with an original, mint-condition factory painted wheel. Back into the oven to bake the silver paint on, and anneal the wheels again! Finally, a protective clear-coat was powderpainted atop the silver, then the wheels went back into the oven for the final time. The resulting wheels are absolutely flawless, exquisitely beautiful, and literally much better and stronger than new. The entire process was extremely labor-intensive and took almost six weeks to accomplish. Larry now has several full sets of early-style (Pre-L) wheels and a few L-model wheels in stock, which he'll sell for $325 each with the exchange of your old wheels. Alternately, he can have your existing wheels repaired for $325 each. Thanks to Larry Stock for providing the step-by-step photographs of the Pantera wheel restoration process.

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