- DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Period correct driving lights wanted
by Larry Finch 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

All, With 2511 repairs finally beginning, final choices for a number of areas are coming due. One still-forming notion is a relocation of the front-end amber turn signals. No. Can’t say more. It’s a top-secret. :-) 2511 will be rebuilt with the Kirk Evans fiberglass mini-bumpers installed over the L-model light pods, but with the amber lights relocated, I can repurpose the pods to just DRL lights. Yes, 2511 is a chrome bumper car — originally. A PO did an entire factory-correct conversion to the late bumpers and pods. I am seeking a period-correct pair of white/clear driving lights to mount on the pods. From my preliminary searching, current driving light offerings are heavily stocked with LED versions. LED's hiding behind plastic or acrylic lenses but still readily seen are NOT the look I want on 2511. Nothing against LED’s, in the right spot. I love the GM Blazer/Astro LED third brake light I installed on the underside of the rear roof; totally non-intrusive and basically invisible until illuminated. I’ve tried the regular suspects, and done some USA and Euro eBay searching. Not much to be found, and even scarcer in the small size available with the pods. The maximum the pod will accommodate is about 6 1/4" x 2 1/2” …. or, 16mm x 7mm. Anyone got any leads or thoughts where to locate clear glass lens, steel housing driving lights?? Thanks, Larry

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New chairs payment and shipping
by Lynn Wall 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

Does anybody know where I should remit payment for the two chairs I purchased? Do I still remit payment to POCA Chairs Attn: Michael Shortt? I have received two wrong colors so far. Blue and Red. I love them both but I ordered black. I know there are screw ups relating to shipping and I want to make sure the proper people receive the proper colors that I have. I don't know if the recent events within POCA changed the process that Michael outlined earlier. Can anybody help? Thanks, Lynn Does anybody know where I should remit payment for the two chairs I purchased? Do I still remit payment to POCA Chairs Attn: Michael Shortt? I have received two wrong colors so far. Blue and Red. I love them both but I ordered black. I know there are screw ups relating to shipping and I want to make sure the proper people receive the proper colors that I have. I don't know if the recent events within POCA changed the process that Michael outlined earlier. Can anybody help? Thanks, Lynn

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Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Palooza 2016 Video
by Asa Jay Laughton 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

Scott, that was very refreshing. Well produced. :) Ass Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >How about some Pantera fun.....the Pantera Palooza 2016 video. Take a 4 minute break from all the NPC and check out the Team Pantera OC video. > >http://youtu.be/gnl1Dlf2asg > >If you're looking for a Pantera event to enjoy in 2017, consider joining us at Pantera Palooza 2017. We think you'll have a great time! > How about some Pantera fun.....the Pantera Palooza 2016 video. Take a 4 > minute break from all the NPC and check out the Team Pantera OC video. > > [1]http://youtu.be/gnl1Dlf2asg > > If you're looking for a Pantera event to enjoy in 2017, consider > joining us at Pantera Palooza 2017. We think you'll have a great time! > >References > > 1. http://youtu.be/gnl1Dlf2asg > >_______________________________________________ > > >Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >DeTomaso mailing list >DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > >Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Scott, that was very refreshing. Well produced. :) Ass Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: How about some Pantera fun.....the Pantera Palooza 2016 video. Take a 4 minute break from all the NPC and check out the Team Pantera OC video. http://youtu.be/gnl1Dlf2asg If you're looking for a Pantera event to enjoy in 2017, consider joining us at Pantera Palooza 2017. We think you'll have a great time! How about some Pantera fun.....the Pantera Palooza 2016 video. Take a 4 minute break from all the NPC and check out the Team Pantera OC video. [1]http://youtu.be/gnl1Dlf2asg If you're looking for a Pantera event to enjoy in 2017, consider joining us at Pantera Palooza 2017. We think you'll have a great time! References 1. http://youtu.be/gnl1Dlf2asg _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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FW: Recent BOD Actions
by Lynn Wall 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

Uh Oh. This guy shares the same first name as MS. Can we get one of the clubs foil-hat wearing, black helicopter dodging paranoids to go back several months and research this guys previous posts, research his IP address or run his name against all known Pantera club registers? I mean, what are the odds?????? It must be "he who shall not be named" I wonder why there has not been a public email from the "new" leadership meant to assuage our fears and build some level of comfort. Even dictators will try to quiet the masses and let them know that even though they were not elected by us we can expect them to act in our best interests. I even checked my junk and trash folders. Anybody?? Bueller?? Bueller?? I did not necessarily like MS methods but I loved his results. I agreed with almost everything accomplished, just not all of his methods. I did not see any reason for the actions that are alleged to have taken place. I anxiously await the answer to the questions below Now do I sign my name or let those same people worry that I might be MS. Oh what the hell, Lynn From: mailer(a)mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 3:11 PM To: General Discussion <no_reply(a)mail2.clubexpress.com> Subject: Recent BOD Actions View/reply online <http://POCA.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=2161&club_id=999896&item_i…> Board of Directors Action(s) towards Mr. Shortt In light of recent actions the POCA Board of Directors, as a member of POCA, I would like to be assured that your actions are of the highest integrity. By this, I would like to know if the BOD followed the proper procedures as written in the POCA By-Laws. There was/were meetings by the BOD (deemed under “Special Meetings”). Did either the President or the Vice President preside over these meeting(s) as outlined in the Duties of Officers? ARTICLE IV OFFICERS Section 6. Duties of Officers: (a) President: The President shall preside at all meetings of POCA and of the Board of Directors, and shall perform such other duties as ordinarily pertain to the office. The President shall have the power to appoint committees as necessary. The President shall also have the power to designate Executive Sessions of any POCA meetings and to implement Executive Sessions upon the request of any Board member. (b) Vice-President: The Vice-President shall assume the duties of the President in his/her absence, and shall perform other duties as usually pertain to that office, and that may be assigned by the Board. In addition, the Vice-President shall be responsible for establishing the program for general meetings. Is there documentation to support that the member elected POCA President, Mr. Shortt, failed to perform his duties as set forth in the By-Laws or engaged in any action(s) that was adverse to the best interest(s) of POCA and its membership? If so, was a written statement of the Board’s position sent to Mr. Shortt as outlined below? Was he then given 30 days to respond? If so, was his response/corrective action(s) inadequate to what you had provided him in writing as outlined in Section 7: Removal of Officers? Section 7. Removal of Officers: If an elected officer fails to perform his or her duties as set forth in the By-Laws or engages in a course of conduct or manner that is adverse to the best interests of POCA and its membership, the Board of Directors shall, by a majority vote, empower a representative of the POCA Board to send a written statement of the Board's position relating to that individual's performance of his or her duties, and of the Board’s intent to vacate that individual's office. The elected officer so affected, shall have thirty (30) days from the date of the Board's notice to respond thereto in writing. If the officer fails to respond within the time limit, or if, in the opinion of a majority of the Board members, such response contains inadequate guarantees of performance, the Board, by a majority vote, shall have the authority to declare the office vacant. The Board shall have the power to fill the vacancy pursuant to these By-Laws, and such newly appointed officer shall serve for the unexpired term of the vacancy. Under the By-Laws for holding special meetings, was notice given to all board members (you just can’t invite the only ones you want to) electronically or by mail, no less than 5 days in advance of the meeting? Are there meeting notes that will be published on the POCA website? ARTICLE VI MEETINGS Section 3. Special Meetings: There may be such additional Special meetings of the POCA Board of Directors as necessary, upon the call thereof by the President or upon the call of any three (3) POCA Board members. Such special meetings of the Board shall take place on a date and time, and at a location, designated by the person’s authorized to call same. Notice of Special Board meetings may be given either electronically or by mail, provided such notice is accomplished not less than five (5) business days in advance of the date of such Special Board meeting. Given the removal of Mr. Shortt from the BOD, were the proper disciplinary processes followed? If Mr. Shortt was in violation of Section 1: Behavior, were the proper procedures as outlined in Section 2 followed? If so, using progressive discipline (unless the original complaint was of such an egregious nature that it would have caused/did cause physical harm to a person or was gross misconduct detrimental and adverse to the interests of the Club and its membership) were the By-Laws set forth in Section 3: Forms of Discipline in that Mr. Shortt was either sent a Warning Letter or Letter of Censure? Were there any other BOD members that also engaged in the same behavior (either initially or as part of the conversation) that Mr. Shortt was in violation of? If so, were they are handled in the same manner? ARTICLE VII DISCIPLINE Section 1. Behavior: All POCA Board members and POCA members shall conduct themselves in an appropriate and seemly manner at all times during Club activities in their dealings with the public, public officials, POCA Board members and POCA members. Section 2. Member Rights: Any POCA Board member or POCA member charged with an offense(s) under this Article shall be fully apprised of the charges in writing by the POCA Board of Directors and afforded an opportunity to respond, either in writing to or in person before, the Board of Directors, within forty-five (45) days of the notification from the Board of Directors. Section 3. Forms of discipline: Any POCA Board member or POCA member so charged who, in the Board's judgment, as evidenced by a majority vote, is guilty of conduct or other reprehensible behavior deemed adverse to the interests of POCA, its policies, its membership, or is in violation of any or all of these By-Laws, may be disciplined by the Board. Discipline shall take such of the following forms as the POCA Board, by a majority vote, may deem to be commensurate with the nature and gravity of the offense: (a) Warning Letter: A private and confidential letter of warning may be transmitted by the POCA Board to the offending POCA member, setting forth the breach(es) of conduct and cautioning the member that any further act detrimental to the best interests of the Club may result in sterner disciplinary action as authorized by and contained in these By-Laws, and advising that member that he or she may respond either in writing or in person to the Board of Directors within forty-five (45) days of the notification from the Board of Directors. (b) Letter of Censure: A formal letter of censure may be issued to the POCA member, with or without notice to the Club membership, setting forth the breach(es) of conduct and censuring the member for conduct detrimental to the best interests of the Club, and advising that member that he/she may respond, in writing or in person, to the Board of Directors with forty-five (45) days of the formal letter of censure, and that any further occurrence of offense(s) of the same or a similar nature may result in suspension of membership status, together with all rights and privileges associated therewith, and/or disqualification from further participation in Club activities, for a period as determined by a two-thirds vote of the Board of Directions. As a member of POCA, I would expect those that are elected by the members that would be conducting the business of our car club, be held to the highest standards. Just because a person is not liked does not justify what is/has been done. If the BOD has not followed all of the By-Laws that they were elected to follow, then their actions are not within the State of California law(s) that govern a not-for-profit group. Just a question, would it be justified to have the Atty General in California notified of this and let them investigate because I do not agree with what had happened? At most, bylaws are legally binding documents that orgs must submit to IRS and state agencies, as well as some foundations. So: “Follow the provisions religiously. You not only have a duty to understand your bylaws, you are legally accountable for following them. This is not optional. A court of law will side with your bylaws in any dispute brought by another board member, an employee, volunteer or recipient of services who may have a grievance.” (McKay, Greg. " <http://www.501c3.org/blog/nonprofit-bylaws-the-dos-and-donts/> Nonprofit Bylaws – The Dos and Don’ts". Foundation Group CEO's Blog. Dec. 1, 2010. Retrieved Dec. 9, 2014) So, to finalize this, BOD – did you follow the POCA By-Laws? If not, what are you going to do to rectify this situation? Remember, the members elected Mr. Shortt as President of POCA. Ours is the voice that should be heard, not yours. You have received this message as a member of: Pantera Owner's Club of America Change preferences (including opt-out): Online Profile <https://POCA.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=13&club_id=999896> Uh Oh. This guy shares the same first name as MS. Can we get one of the clubs foil-hat wearing, black helicopter dodging paranoids to go back several months and research this guys previous posts, research his IP address or run his name against all known Pantera club registers? I mean, what are the odds?????? It must be "he who shall not be named" I wonder why there has not been a public email from the "new" leadership meant to assuage our fears and build some level of comfort. Even dictators will try to quiet the masses and let them know that even though they were not elected by us we can expect them to act in our best interests. I even checked my junk and trash folders. Anybody?? Bueller?? Bueller?? I did not necessarily like MS methods but I loved his results. I agreed with almost everything accomplished, just not all of his methods. I did not see any reason for the actions that are alleged to have taken place. I anxiously await the answer to the questions below Now do I sign my name or let those same people worry that I might be MS. Oh what the hell, Lynn From: mailer(a)mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 3:11 PM To: General Discussion <no_reply(a)mail2.clubexpress.com> Subject: Recent BOD Actions View/reply [1]online Board of Directors Action(s) towards Mr. Shortt In light of recent actions the POCA Board of Directors, as a member of POCA, I would like to be assured that your actions are of the highest integrity. By this, I would like to know if the BOD followed the proper procedures as written in the POCA By-Laws. There was/were meetings by the BOD (deemed under "Special Meetings"). Did either the President or the Vice President preside over these meeting(s) as outlined in the Duties of Officers? ARTICLE IV OFFICERS Section 6. Duties of Officers: (a) President: The President shall preside at all meetings of POCA and of the Board of Directors, and shall perform such other duties as ordinarily pertain to the office. The President shall have the power to appoint committees as necessary. The President shall also have the power to designate Executive Sessions of any POCA meetings and to implement Executive Sessions upon the request of any Board member. (b) Vice-President: The Vice-President shall assume the duties of the President in his/her absence, and shall perform other duties as usually pertain to that office, and that may be assigned by the Board. In addition, the Vice-President shall be responsible for establishing the program for general meetings. Is there documentation to support that the member elected POCA President, Mr. Shortt, failed to perform his duties as set forth in the By-Laws or engaged in any action(s) that was adverse to the best interest(s) of POCA and its membership? If so, was a written statement of the Board's position sent to Mr. Shortt as outlined below? Was he then given 30 days to respond? If so, was his response/corrective action(s) inadequate to what you had provided him in writing as outlined in Section 7: Removal of Officers? Section 7. Removal of Officers: If an elected officer fails to perform his or her duties as set forth in the By-Laws or engages in a course of conduct or manner that is adverse to the best interests of POCA and its membership, the Board of Directors shall, by a majority vote, empower a representative of the POCA Board to send a written statement of the Board's position relating to that individual's performance of his or her duties, and of the Board's intent to vacate that individual's office. The elected officer so affected, shall have thirty (30) days from the date of the Board's notice to respond thereto in writing. If the officer fails to respond within the time limit, or if, in the opinion of a majority of the Board members, such response contains inadequate guarantees of performance, the Board, by a majority vote, shall have the authority to declare the office vacant. The Board shall have the power to fill the vacancy pursuant to these By-Laws, and such newly appointed officer shall serve for the unexpired term of the vacancy. Under the By-Laws for holding special meetings, was notice given to all board members (you just can't invite the only ones you want to) electronically or by mail, no less than 5 days in advance of the meeting? Are there meeting notes that will be published on the POCA website? ARTICLE VI MEETINGS Section 3. Special Meetings: There may be such additional Special meetings of the POCA Board of Directors as necessary, upon the call thereof by the President or upon the call of any three (3) POCA Board members. Such special meetings of the Board shall take place on a date and time, and at a location, designated by the person's authorized to call same. Notice of Special Board meetings may be given either electronically or by mail, provided such notice is accomplished not less than five (5) business days in advance of the date of such Special Board meeting. Given the removal of Mr. Shortt from the BOD, were the proper disciplinary processes followed? If Mr. Shortt was in violation of Section 1: Behavior, were the proper procedures as outlined in Section 2 followed? If so, using progressive discipline (unless the original complaint was of such an egregious nature that it would have caused/did cause physical harm to a person or was gross misconduct detrimental and adverse to the interests of the Club and its membership) were the By-Laws set forth in Section 3: Forms of Discipline in that Mr. Shortt was either sent a Warning Letter or Letter of Censure? Were there any other BOD members that also engaged in the same behavior (either initially or as part of the conversation) that Mr. Shortt was in violation of? If so, were they are handled in the same manner? ARTICLE VII DISCIPLINE Section 1. Behavior: All POCA Board members and POCA members shall conduct themselves in an appropriate and seemly manner at all times during Club activities in their dealings with the public, public officials, POCA Board members and POCA members. Section 2. Member Rights: Any POCA Board member or POCA member charged with an offense(s) under this Article shall be fully apprised of the charges in writing by the POCA Board of Directors and afforded an opportunity to respond, either in writing to or in person before, the Board of Directors, within forty-five (45) days of the notification from the Board of Directors. Section 3. Forms of discipline: Any POCA Board member or POCA member so charged who, in the Board's judgment, as evidenced by a majority vote, is guilty of conduct or other reprehensible behavior deemed adverse to the interests of POCA, its policies, its membership, or is in violation of any or all of these By-Laws, may be disciplined by the Board. Discipline shall take such of the following forms as the POCA Board, by a majority vote, may deem to be commensurate with the nature and gravity of the offense: (a) Warning Letter: A private and confidential letter of warning may be transmitted by the POCA Board to the offending POCA member, setting forth the breach(es) of conduct and cautioning the member that any further act detrimental to the best interests of the Club may result in sterner disciplinary action as authorized by and contained in these By-Laws, and advising that member that he or she may respond either in writing or in person to the Board of Directors within forty-five (45) days of the notification from the Board of Directors. (b) Letter of Censure: A formal letter of censure may be issued to the POCA member, with or without notice to the Club membership, setting forth the breach(es) of conduct and censuring the member for conduct detrimental to the best interests of the Club, and advising that member that he/she may respond, in writing or in person, to the Board of Directors with forty-five (45) days of the formal letter of censure, and that any further occurrence of offense(s) of the same or a similar nature may result in suspension of membership status, together with all rights and privileges associated therewith, and/or disqualification from further participation in Club activities, for a period as determined by a two-thirds vote of the Board of Directions. As a member of POCA, I would expect those that are elected by the members that would be conducting the business of our car club, be held to the highest standards. Just because a person is not liked does not justify what is/has been done. If the BOD has not followed all of the By-Laws that they were elected to follow, then their actions are not within the State of California law(s) that govern a not-for-profit group. Just a question, would it be justified to have the Atty General in California notified of this and let them investigate because I do not agree with what had happened? At most, bylaws are legally binding documents that orgs must submit to IRS and state agencies, as well as some foundations. So: "Follow the provisions religiously. You not only have a duty to understand your bylaws, you are legally accountable for following them. This is not optional. A court of law will side with your bylaws in any dispute brought by another board member, an employee, volunteer or recipient of services who may have a grievance." (McKay, Greg. "[2]Nonprofit Bylaws - The Dos and Don'ts". Foundation Group CEO's Blog. Dec. 1, 2010. Retrieved Dec. 9, 2014) So, to finalize this, BOD - did you follow the POCA By-Laws? If not, what are you going to do to rectify this situation? Remember, the members elected Mr. Shortt as President of POCA. Ours is the voice that should be heard, not yours. You have received this message as a member of: Pantera Owner's Club of America Change preferences (including opt-out): [3]Online Profile References 1. http://POCA.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=2161&club_id=999896&item_i… 2. http://www.501c3.org/blog/nonprofit-bylaws-the-dos-and-donts/ 3. https://POCA.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=13&club_id=999896

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FW: The Last Blast (2)
by Charles McCall 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

Just in case you aren’t a POCA member and were wondering how this was going to play out… From: Michael Shortt [mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com] Sent: lunes, 25 de julio de 2016 17:57 To: Mike Burnett Subject: The Last Blast (2) -- POCA Members, You should know that as a result of the illegal coup “masterminded” by Ed Mendez, Joe Stockett, John Buckman, Judith McCartney and Bob Reid, your club has lost or will soon be losing its President (me) Mike Burnett (Vice President) and Profiles’ new Editor Laurie Basile. This was done against all by-laws, State of California Corp and association laws and US Federal Laws. In a series of meetings over the last week it was planned in efforts led by John Buckman, it appears Mr. Mendez was directly responsible for shutting down and removing me from the very website I created, poca.com. When it was brought back online, I discovered I banned from using it. Mr. Mendez also removed me from the Survey Monkey account which was secured with my credit card and he has removed me from every active Facebook account. You will notice that Mr. Stockett is now listed on the President’s Blog as being in charge. Mr. Reid did his best to stop all ongoing business with our vendors, including stopping your new plastic membership cards from being mailed out. If there is any doubt to any of this I have emails from all concerned. Your coup committee is having a meeting on Thursday evening via teleconference, I urge you to listen in. All Hail the new leaders of POCA who have usurped the bylaws, ignored the membership and taken control of your club and its $100,000 bank account. Just as an aside, the survey I sent out was limited to 100 responses because it was a trial account instead of the one I formerly used, it indicated a 75% approval rating for us, your deposed legal elected leadership, if you were to remove the known haters who caused our issues, the actual result was 92% approval. As you can imagine, as the usurped leadership, Michael Burnett and I were caught completely off guard. I had been busy last week ensuring that your new cards were being properly made, shipped out and ensuring new merchandise for the POCA store was been delivered. We were doing our job while these five conspired against us and you the club members. POCA is plagued with a dozen or so deeply toxic members who constantly, in a coordinated effort email, slander, libel, lie, cheat, and harass the leadership. You would all do yourselves a favor to rid your club of the following people, if these few people were not in POCA, the unrest and conflict which has spread like cancer to the weak minded members on the BOD would have never existed. Larry Finch Gil Mares Asa Jay Laughton Forest Goodhart Rob DOrazio Judith McCartney Kurt Brynes Jack DeRyke Judy DeRyke Mike Haney Nancy Haney Rod Kunishige Don Thomas As for me, I am leaving office soon after the best three nights of sleep I have had in 8 months, secure in the knowledge that I gave more than 110% and did more for the club in visible changes and improvements than has been done in the last twenty years. It is unfortunate that so few, so afraid of change could affect so many who embrace a brighter future. I worked to stop the graft, the overpayments, the waste and tried to remove the nasty and mean spiritedness that remain prevalent within POCA. We grew the club to a modern new record size of members, for the newer members I feel directly responsible for drawing you into this toxic mess, I’m sorry. This was supposed to be fun, this was supposed to be about the cars, this was supposed to be about using my skill sets to elevate and polish POCA into a real car club and drag it out of the 1980’s into a bright new future. A job that was being done, step by step, month after month. I have been contacted by many, many, members, vendors, suppliers and other influential people within the Detomaso community and asked to offer an alternative club like experience to owners, one which will be fun and revolve around the cars, not personalities, not drinking, not gossip. Just good people who want to enjoy their car with others who share the same passion. In the last two days I have been very busy planning, there has been nothing but massive support offered. Rest assured we will be selective who is allowed to join, no trouble makers, no drama folks, just those who want to play with cars and be nice to each other. There is no reason we cannot be more like the Ferrari Club which is event driven, the Porsche Club, the BMW club, etc. We will honor all things DeTomaso, Tom Tjaarda, Ford and the people who own them. If you want to learn more about this new opportunity, please reply to this email at ciaodetomaso(a)gmail.com This will be the Last Blast, Yours in all ways DeTomaso, Michael Shortt POCA’s last legally elected President You have read the email that was sent to you, please consider the alternatives outlined carefully and make a decision, I will abide by your wishes based upon your feedback. I humbly Thank You for the opportunity so far to give you a glimpse of what was possible with a little hard work, vision, dedication to the task and an honest desire to improve the membership experience. There is more that can be done, or it can revert to the way it was, your response will in all likelihood, determine which outcome is forthcoming. · Answered: 99 · Skipped: 1 We support Michael Shor... We Thank you for your... 0%10%20%30%40%50%60%70%80%90%100% Answer Choices– Responses– – We support Michael Shortt, Mike Burnett and Laurie Basile and want you to fight for us and keep making the club better. 74.75% 74 – We Thank you for your service so far, please give up the fight, let the contentious people win and return the club to the way it was. 25.25% 25 Total 99 Comments(0) Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you Just in case you aren't a POCA member and were wondering how this was going to play out... From: Michael Shortt [mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com] Sent: lunes, 25 de julio de 2016 17:57 To: Mike Burnett Subject: The Last Blast (2) -- POCA Members, You should know that as a result of the illegal coup "masterminded" by Ed Mendez, Joe Stockett, John Buckman, Judith McCartney and Bob Reid, your club has lost or will soon be losing its President (me) Mike Burnett (Vice President) and Profiles' new Editor Laurie Basile. This was done against all by-laws, State of California Corp and association laws and US Federal Laws. In a series of meetings over the last week it was planned in efforts led by John Buckman, it appears Mr. Mendez was directly responsible for shutting down and removing me from the very website I created, [1]poca.com. When it was brought back online, I discovered I banned from using it. Mr. Mendez also removed me from the Survey Monkey account which was secured with my credit card and he has removed me from every active Facebook account. You will notice that Mr. Stockett is now listed on the President's Blog as being in charge. Mr. Reid did his best to stop all ongoing business with our vendors, including stopping your new plastic membership cards from being mailed out. If there is any doubt to any of this I have emails from all concerned. Your coup committee is having a meeting on Thursday evening via teleconference, I urge you to listen in. All Hail the new leaders of POCA who have usurped the bylaws, ignored the membership and taken control of your club and its $100,000 bank account. Just as an aside, the survey I sent out was limited to 100 responses because it was a trial account instead of the one I formerly used, it indicated a 75% approval rating for us, your deposed legal elected leadership, if you were to remove the known haters who caused our issues, the actual result was 92% approval. As you can imagine, as the usurped leadership, Michael Burnett and I were caught completely off guard. I had been busy last week ensuring that your new cards were being properly made, shipped out and ensuring new merchandise for the POCA store was been delivered. We were doing our job while these five conspired against us and you the club members. POCA is plagued with a dozen or so deeply toxic members who constantly, in a coordinated effort email, slander, libel, lie, cheat, and harass the leadership. You would all do yourselves a favor to rid your club of the following people, if these few people were not in POCA, the unrest and conflict which has spread like cancer to the weak minded members on the BOD would have never existed. Larry Finch Gil Mares Asa Jay Laughton Forest Goodhart Rob DOrazio Judith McCartney Kurt Brynes Jack DeRyke Judy DeRyke Mike Haney Nancy Haney Rod Kunishige Don Thomas As for me, I am leaving office soon after the best three nights of sleep I have had in 8 months, secure in the knowledge that I gave more than 110% and did more for the club in visible changes and improvements than has been done in the last twenty years. It is unfortunate that so few, so afraid of change could affect so many who embrace a brighter future. I worked to stop the graft, the overpayments, the waste and tried to remove the nasty and mean spiritedness that remain prevalent within POCA. We grew the club to a modern new record size of members, for the newer members I feel directly responsible for drawing you into this toxic mess, I'm sorry. This was supposed to be fun, this was supposed to be about the cars, this was supposed to be about using my skill sets to elevate and polish POCA into a real car club and drag it out of the 1980's into a bright new future. A job that was being done, step by step, month after month. I have been contacted by many, many, members, vendors, suppliers and other influential people within the Detomaso community and asked to offer an alternative club like experience to owners, one which will be fun and revolve around the cars, not personalities, not drinking, not gossip. Just good people who want to enjoy their car with others who share the same passion. In the last two days I have been very busy planning, there has been nothing but massive support offered. Rest assured we will be selective who is allowed to join, no trouble makers, no drama folks, just those who want to play with cars and be nice to each other. There is no reason we cannot be more like the Ferrari Club which is event driven, the Porsche Club, the BMW club, etc. We will honor all things DeTomaso, Tom Tjaarda, Ford and the people who own them. If you want to learn more about this new opportunity, please reply to this email at [2]ciaodetomaso(a)gmail.com This will be the Last Blast, Yours in all ways DeTomaso, Michael Shortt POCA's last legally elected President You have read the email that was sent to you, please consider the alternatives outlined carefully and make a decision, I will abide by your wishes based upon your feedback. I humbly Thank You for the opportunity so far to give you a glimpse of what was possible with a little hard work, vision, dedication to the task and an honest desire to improve the membership experience. There is more that can be done, or it can revert to the way it was, your response will in all likelihood, determine which outcome is forthcoming. . Answered: 99 . Skipped: 1 We support Michael Shor... We Thank you for your... 0%10%20%30%40%50%60%70%80%90%100% Answer Choices- Responses- - We support Michael Shortt, Mike Burnett and Laurie Basile and want you to fight for us and keep making the club better. 74.75% 74 - We Thank you for your service so far, please give up the fight, let the contentious people win and return the club to the way it was. 25.25% 25 Total 99 Comments(0) Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [3]michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. http://poca.com/ 2. mailto:ciaodetomaso@gmail.com 3. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com

6 5

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by bill 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Did you ever get the alternator problem sorted ? I drive my car much more than most, dare I say 90%, the PPC set up works great and I will stand by it. CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 2016-07-26 5:33 PM (GMT-07:00) To: klckmac(a)msn.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and > they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would > like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other > dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. > Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Did you ever get the alternator problem sorted ? I drive my car much more than most, dare I say 90%, the PPC set up works great and I will stand by it. Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 2016-07-26 5:33 PM (GMT-07:00) To: klckmac(a)msn.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and > they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would > like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other > dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. > Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by bill 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Just get a PPC rad w/ suckered and be done with it. CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> Date: 2016-07-26 4:48 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf _____ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? [1]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn. pdf _______________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: [3]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; [5]hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf 2. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:hoppe1@cox.net 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Just get a PPC rad w/ suckered and be done with it. Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> Date: 2016-07-26 4:48 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf _____ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? [1]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn. pdf _______________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: [3]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; [5]hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf 2. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:hoppe1@cox.net 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by cengles＠cox.net 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Dear Bud, Now that is an excellent testimonial. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote: > My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with > twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The > hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 > only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are > 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed > cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on > hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot > weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front > of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like > there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) > > From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> > To: "detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 > AM > Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system > All, > > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless > tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for > repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for > that > price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit > like > PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular > setup. > > Thanks for the help. > > Ken MacArthur > > 72L 4443 > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages.

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Cooling system
by Larry Finch 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

The current Quella/Ron Davis offering is a double-pass. They once offered a triple-pass, now discontinued. Larry

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Fwd: U.S. Copyright Violations
by Ed Mendez 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

More toxic spew. If he is still the active president of the club how can he say in the same breath he is going to sue the club that he president of? Is he suing himself ? Begin forwarded message: From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> Date: July 25, 2016 1:42:05 PM To: Joe Stockett <qrtlow(a)gmail.com>,Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com>,John Buckman <jb841(a)cox.net>,Judith McCartney <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>,"RREIDCPA(a)aol.com" <RREIDCPA(a)aol.com> Subject: U.S. Copyright Violations Be advised that POCA.Com continues to violate US Copyright Law by displaying /using unaiuthorized content created by me in the form of text, graphics, photos and design elements. You have been given 96 hours to remove them and have not done so. Each violation will be noted and listed as a separate violation in a complaint to be filed with the US Eastern Judicial Circuit of the United States Federal District on Tuesday, July 26, 2016. This is the last time I'm going to tell you to remove everything from the website. You are not going to use my work to entice people into that toxic and divisive club. Copyright A bundle of intangible rights granted by statute to the author or originator of certain literary or artistic productions, whereby,for a limited period, the exclusive privilege is given to that person (or to any party to whom he or she transfers ownership) to make copies of the same for publication and sale. A copyright is a legal device that gives the creator of a literary, artistic, musical, or other creative work the sole right to publish and sell that work. Copyright owners have the right to control the reproduction of their work, including the right to receive payment for that reproduction. An author may grant or sell those rights to others, including publishers or recording companies. Violation of a copyright is called infringement. Summary of Civil and Criminal Penalties for Violation of Federal Copyright Laws Copyright infringement is the act of exercising, without permission or legal authority, one or more of the exclusive rights granted to the copyright owner under section 106 of the Copyright Act (Title 17 of the United States Code). These rights include the right to reproduce or distribute a copyrighted work. In the file-sharing context, downloading or uploading substantial parts of a copyrighted work without authority constitutes an infringement. Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505. Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. For more information, please see the Web site of the U.S. Copyright Office atwww.copyright.gov, especially their FAQ's at www.copyright.gov/help/faq. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 More toxic spew. If he is still the active president of the club how can he say in the same breath he is going to sue the club that he president of? Is he suing himself ? Begin forwarded message: From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> Date: July 25, 2016 1:42:05 PM To: Joe Stockett <qrtlow(a)gmail.com>,Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com>,John Buckman <jb841(a)cox.net>,Judith McCartney <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>,"RREIDCPA(a)aol.com" <RREIDCPA(a)aol.com> Subject: U.S. Copyright Violations Be advised that [1]POCA.Com continues to violate US Copyright Law by displaying /using unaiuthorized content created by me in the form of text, graphics, photos and design elements. You have been given 96 hours to remove them and have not done so. Each violation will be noted and listed as a separate violation in a complaint to be filed with the US Eastern Judicial Circuit of the United States Federal District on Tuesday, July 26, 2016. This is the last time I'm going to tell you to remove everything from the website. You are not going to use my work to entice people into that toxic and divisive club. Copyright A bundle of intangible rights granted by statute to the author or origi nator of certain literary or artistic productions, whereby,for a limite d period, the exclusive privilege is given to that person (or to any pa rty to whom he or she transfers ownership) to make copies of the same f or publication and sale. A copyright is a legal device that gives the creator of a literary, art istic, musical, or other creative work the sole right to publish and se ll that work. Copyright owners have the right to control the reproducti on of their work, including the right to receive payment for that repro duction. An author may grant or sell those rights to others, including publishers or recording companies. Violation of a copyright is called i nfringement. Summary of Civil and Criminal Penalties for Violation of Federal Copyright Laws Copyright infringement is the act of exercising, without permission or legal authority, one or more of the exclusive rights granted to the copyright owner under section 106 of the Copyright Act (Title 17 of the United States Code). These rights include the right to reproduce or distribute a copyrighted work. In the file-sharing context, downloading or uploading substantial parts of a copyrighted work without authority constitutes an infringement. Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505. Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. For more information, please see the Web site of the U.S. Copyright Office at[2]www.copyright.gov, especially their FAQ's at [3]www.copyright.gov/help/faq. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [4]michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 References 1. http://POCA.Com/ 2. http://www.copyright.gov/ 3. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq 4. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com

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