- DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by bill 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Yes Julian, who sleeps with who, I too have questions, I need a Christmas card list, for and or some nepotism clarification. Feel free to throw darts, flames or .......facts. CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari(a)aol.com, marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still doesn't sit well in my gut. Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand against changing printer? Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only pennies between it? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Yes Julian, who sleeps with who, I too have questions, I need a Christmas card list, for and or some nepotism clarification. Feel free to throw darts, flames or .......facts. Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari(a)aol.com, marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still doesn't sit well in my gut. Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand against changing printer? Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only pennies between it? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
by marshallgsmith 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Hey Asa...Don't apologize so quickly. What I don't understand is why we are just receiving this information now. By all appearances, Jack and Mike picked up their marbles and went home because they didn't want to change printers regardless of the (now incorrect) $8,000 savings. This seemingly put our editors in a bad light. Additionally, neither spoke up which made matters look worse. Knowing this information before hand would have saved a lot of discontent and innuendo. This smacks of the age-old POCA board making the decisions but not sharing the details with the membership which in this case would have painted the old board in a much better light. Marshall Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay(a)asajay.com> Date: 8/13/16 7:16 PM (GMT-08:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic I stand corrected. I received the same pdf attachment as everyone else and it appears Jack's resignation -was- tied to switching printers (though not for the presumed reasons I was made aware of previously). My apologies for the mistake and thank you to those who were able to clear that up. Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Hey Asa... Don't apologize so quickly. What I don't understand is why we are just receiving this information now. By all appearances, Jack and Mike picked up their marbles and went home because they didn't want to change printers regardless of the (now incorrect) $8,000 savings. This seemingly put our editors in a bad light. Additionally, neither spoke up which made matters look worse. Knowing this information before hand would have saved a lot of discontent and innuendo. This smacks of the age-old POCA board making the decisions but not sharing the details with the membership which in this case would have painted the old board in a much better light. Marshall Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay(a)asajay.com> Date: 8/13/16 7:16 PM (GMT-08:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic I stand corrected. I received the same pdf attachment as everyone else and it appears Jack's resignation -was- tied to switching printers (though not for the presumed reasons I was made aware of previously). My apologies for the mistake and thank you to those who were able to clear that up. Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

4 6

Radiator Dilemma
by Jack Donahue 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I’ve been told that a shroud is a necessity, which I understand. I’ve had it for about 12 years now - no leaks. The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) - don’t know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read from someone was just to get his radiator and “be done with it”. I think it was a double-pass (I guess that’s good) - and I assume it’s shrouded. Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And Why? I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have been at it since the early 1900’s. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all the experts - i know you are out there. jack #4348 Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a shroud is a necessity, which I understand. I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks. The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) - don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read from someone was just to get his radiator and "be done with it". I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume it's shrouded. Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And Why? I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all the experts - i know you are out there. jack #4348

19 24

Re: [DeTomaso] ANY ROOM AT LOS LAURLES DINNER?
by Mike Drew 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

Guys, See below. If you think you are coming to the dinner but you have not made reservations, contact Steve below pronto! Mike On Aug 15, 2016, at 21:22, "dalcino(a)netzero.net" <dalcino(a)netzero.net> wrote: > Hi Mike, > Unfortunately, not only are there no rooms left, but there are only 8 spots left for the Friday dinner. Last year we had 22 no-reservation walk-ups. I think it will be worse this year, with Tom Tjaarda as our guest. The hotel can't help us in their usual manner as they have already ordered the food and equipment (tables and Chairs). The fire crews have placed an even greater strain on the local hospitality industry than they can handle during "Auto Week", so they're in a bind. We will most likely have to turn people away a the door. > See you Wed. > Steve

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Pantera GTS on Ebay! again $250K!!
by Mike Scardina 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

This car appears to have most of the right original GTS parts, but one thing that's hard to fake is the paint. When repainting the black hood and deck lid, most people seem to opt for a solid black, either gloss or satin. However, I think the original U.S. GTS cars all came with a metallic charcoal finish on those areas. For some reason, that seems very hard to replicate, or perhaps people prefer the non-metallic look. The latter doesn't seem to make sense for a car striving for originality to the point of suffering with original Arriva tires. For my money, I would expect a $250K Pantera to get it ALL right. This car appears to have most of the right original GTS parts, but one thing that's hard to fake is the paint. When repainting the black hood and deck lid, most people seem to opt for a solid black, either gloss or satin. However, I think the original U.S. GTS cars all came with a metallic charcoal finish on those areas. For some reason, that seems very hard to replicate, or perhaps people prefer the non-metallic look. The latter doesn't seem to make sense for a car striving for originality to the point of suffering with original Arriva tires. For my money, I would expect a $250K Pantera to get it ALL right.

2 1

Fw: NPC (Goes along with "Sam" - American Pie - A Video Presentation
by Bill Lewis 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

This video goes along so well with the current thread labeled "Sam" so here goes!! Let 'er rip! ---BILL Lewis ________________________________ Subject: American Pie - A Video Presentation [image1.jpeg] Remembering the 50's? This is a nicely done video presentation of the Don McLean's classic song, 'American Pie' and the times thereof. McLean indicated his '72 song was definitely inspired by the plane crash deaths in 1959 of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J. P. Richardson.....but otherwise he has been rather ambiguous (and maybe purposely) about other meanings....including what 'American Pie' means.....however the urban legend that 'American Pie' was the name of the Holly plane that crashed is simply untrue. But this presentation - McLean's music and words put together with pictures and film clips - provides one person's interpretation of American Pie. http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VhX3b1h7GQw/maxresdefault.jpg]<http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw> Meaning of American Pie by Don McLean (w/lyrics)<http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw> youtu.be American Pie (1971) is an allegorical song by Don McLean that starts on the death of Buddy Holly in an airplane crash in February, 3rd 1959, the day the musi... This video goes along so well with the current thread labeled "Sam" so here goes!! Let 'er rip! ---BILL Lewis __________________________________________________________________ Subject: American Pie - A Video Presentation image1.jpeg Remembering the 50's? This is a nicely done video presentation of the Don McLean's classic song, 'American Pie' and the times thereof. McLean indicated his '72 song was definitely inspired by the plane crash deaths in 1959 of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J. P. Richardson.....but otherwise he has been rather ambiguous (and maybe purposely) about other meanings....including what 'American Pie' means.....however the urban legend that 'American Pie' was the name of the Holly plane that crashed is simply untrue. But this presentation - McLean's music and words put together with pictures and film clips - provides one person's interpretation of American Pie. [1]http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw [2][maxresdefault.jpg] [3]Meaning of American Pie by Don McLean (w/lyrics) youtu.be American Pie (1971) is an allegorical song by Don McLean that starts on the death of Buddy Holly in an airplane crash in February, 3rd 1959, the day the musi... References 1. http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw 2. http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw 3. http://youtu.be/VhX3b1h7GQw

3 2

Hope for the future
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

Terry, I LOVE your story. Your accomplishments are amazing and your grandson (it's no wonder) is a great and super smart guy too. Thank you for your positive perspective. Benefits us all to read this! Laurie You and your > On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Himes, Terry (397C) <terry.himes(a)jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > Ken (et al), > My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. > LOL ;-) > Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger > System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott > Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it > too. > The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do > seem to spend too much time > with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, > they said they are keeping in-touch > with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep > in-touch constantly. Seems weird to > me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their > outdoors trips on the weekend. > They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada > mountains almost EVERY weekend. They > go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend > them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. > My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a > straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse > all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates > Degree" from the local college courses he takes. > So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I > step back and think, maybe it's just different than > when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. > Just my opinion. > Terry Terry, I LOVE your story. Your accomplishments are amazing and your grandson (it's no wonder) is a great and super smart guy too. Thank you for your positive perspective. Benefits us all to read this! Laurie You and your > On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Himes, Terry (397C) <terry.himes(a)jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > Ken (et al), > My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. > LOL ;-) > Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger > System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott > Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it > too. > The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do > seem to spend too much time > with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, > they said they are keeping in-touch > with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep > in-touch constantly. Seems weird to > me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their > outdoors trips on the weekend. > They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada > mountains almost EVERY weekend. They > go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend > them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. > My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a > straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse > all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates > Degree" from the local college courses he takes. > So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I > step back and think, maybe it's just different than > when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. > Just my opinion. > Terry

1 0

the future
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

Ken, You have somewhat of a point, but, not to worry. Now they have headphones and converse with friends while they play their games. How do I know? I had to buy one of those gaming headphones for my grandson for his last birthday and he has lots of social contact with friends while playing. Even sees them on the screen while playing. And they still have play dates and sleep overs and little league and girl and boy scouts, and lessons of various kinds; much depends on parents. I don't think you're right about not liking cars though. Everyone still loves cars, young to old. I see youngsters running around and excitedly taking pictures and discussing cars at Super Car Sundays, and shows, all the time. What we have to worry about is this. Do you recall Woody Allen's movie, "Sleeper?" Not only were people glued to their huge monitors to hear from "Big Brother," but they also had a walk-in machine (kind of like an old phone booth) for other "Activities" that replaced human contact. Don't think we're quite there yet. How did he know what was to be, so long ago? Laurie -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green <kenn_green(a)yahoo.com> To: laurieferrari <laurieferrari(a)aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 11:02 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken Ken, You have somewhat of a point, but, not to worry. Now they have headphones and converse with friends while they play their games. How do I know? I had to buy one of those gaming headphones for my grandson for his last birthday and he has lots of social contact with friends while playing. Even sees them on the screen while playing. And they still have play dates and sleep overs and little league and girl and boy scouts, and lessons of various kinds; much depends on parents. I don't think you're right about not liking cars though. Everyone still loves cars, young to old. I see youngsters running around and excitedly taking pictures and discussing cars at Super Car Sundays, and shows, all the time. What we have to worry about is this. Do you recall Woody Allen's movie, "Sleeper?" Not only were people glued to their huge monitors to hear from "Big Brother," but they also had a walk-in machine (kind of like an old phone booth) for other "Activities" that replaced human contact. Don't think we're quite there yet. How did he know what was to be, so long ago? Laurie -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green <kenn_green(a)yahoo.com> To: laurieferrari <laurieferrari(a)aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 11:02 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
by marshallgsmith 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: asajay(a)asajay.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it. Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it digitally. As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but not proportionately. An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis. Bob Reid In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly. I have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the board will look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. To use a cliche, we're working on it. Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it digitally. As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but not proportionately. An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis. Bob Reid In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly. I have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the board will look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: asajay(a)asajay.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it. Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it digitally. As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but not proportionately. An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis. Bob Reid In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly. I have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the board will look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. To use a cliche, we're working on it. Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it digitally. As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but not proportionately. An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis. Bob Reid In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly. I have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the board will look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
by Michael Cox 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

> From: Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! > > Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now! De Tomaso: > Other Pantera GTS http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC These guys found that ad too. :^) http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-7… --michael cox > From: Ed Mendez <[1]edducati(a)mac.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! >A > Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now!A De Tomaso: > Other Pantera GTSA [2]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC These guys found that ad too. A :^) [3]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/ A A --michael cox References 1. mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC 3. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-7…

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