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Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Ed et al, What I don't see mentioned in your summary of the BOD meeting is who the club's printer will be. Will you return to the former printer? The consideration of a printer change was the motivating rationale for Jack DeRyke and Mike Haney's resignation. As they both will be returning to their positions does that mean the club will be returning to the use of their former printer? Or will the plan to proceed to the new printer with ALL COLOR publications for $8,000. less per year continue? I'm sure we all wish the BOD to always entertain the BEST quote and now we know it is possible for the club to save $8,000. a year for ALL COLOR in BOTH publications. Laurie's <OO> eyes are watching! -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (James coyne) 2. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (The DeTomaso Registry Guy) 3. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (marshall smith) 4. Re: [SDP] The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Ed Mendez) 5. For Sale: Intake and Carb for Cleveland 351. (Fred Sweeney) 6. Matra Djet (Rod Kunishige) 7. Re: The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Scott Couchman) 8. Re: For Sale: Intake and Carb for Cleveland 351. (Dave Londry) 9. Re: [SDP] The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Ed Mendez) 10. Re: [SDP] Re: The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Effie Richards) 11. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (Effie Richards) 12. Re: The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (bill(a)incendium.com) 13. Fwd: Your Digital Pocket Guide to Monterey - Presented by Sports Car Market and Passport Transport (Mike Drew) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:10:55 +0000 From: James coyne <tecnosound(a)hotmail.com> To: Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net>, Roland <willibillie(a)live.de>, "Pantera Mail List" <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? Message-ID: <SN1PR13MB0335054A8A13D02A22804171DF1F0(a)SN1PR13MB0335.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I totally agree Rob . Very well stated . ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 4:12 AM To: Roland; Pantera Mail List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? Roland, since even before MS was elected, he has been threatening members with lawsuits apparently as a form of intimidation. His recent comments directly state he intends to destroy POCA as an organization, I assume for his own pleasure or personal gain. I was not present on the call and did not hear the context of such a ban, but if any one person's actions were to not warrant such an outcome of being banned, what other behavior would have to take place before it would reach that level? That is an open question for everybody to decide personally. Is it more civil to degrade and intimidate in order to get others to quit or to set standards for expected behavior and let those standards apply to all members? The third option is to allow toxic behavior to fracture the club which is what has been happening the past 7 months. MS added me to his list of people to sue along the way as I was called a "Backstabbing Motherf$!@er". I can live with those petty threats, I just choose not to. Setting standards of decency that do not allow bullying and threats seems like a good idea to me, but I am just one opinion. On Aug 12, 2016 3:59 AM, "Roland" <willibillie(a)live.de> wrote: > > First of all, i don't like the actions MS did ! > But banning MS for life? Isn't banning for life a relict from the dark age? What about his supporters? Send them out with a sign "I'm guilty" ? MS was voted by many for his promisises making Poca great again ( didn't i hear this very often lataly) What about his voters? Are they ashamed, for what he has done? No ! I haven't heard of one ! > > Roland > > > Am 11.08.2016 um 22:42 schrieb Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com>: > > > > He should have used PST, because Joe lives in AZ where they have no > > DST. At the moment AZ time and CA time are the same. > > > > Sorry > > > > It lasted until 7.58, but it was a great meeting, it was so much less > > tense. > > In a nutshell. > > Bob publicly announced and made a commitment that we will not be > > returning to pre-2016 BOD ways, keeping all the MS changes, keeping > > finances and BOD meetings open, etc. > > Waiting 1 week on Mike Burnett for a decision on his VP position > > Board appointments: > > Les is Past President > > Mike H is Profiles > > Jack D is Newsletter > > Josette is Store manager (non-board) > > Talked about the store and the website > > Talked about banning MS for life. > > Ed > > Ed et al, What I don't see mentioned in your summary of the BOD meeting is who the club's printer will be. Will you return to the former printer? The consideration of a printer change was the motivating rationale for Jack DeRyke and Mike Haney's resignation. As they both will be returning to their positions does that mean the club will be returning to the use of their former printer? Or will the plan to proceed to the new printer with ALL COLOR publications for $8,000. less per year continue? I'm sure we all wish the BOD to always entertain the BEST quote and now we know it is possible for the club to save $8,000. a year for ALL COLOR in BOTH publications. Laurie's <OO> eyes are watching! -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [1]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[3]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[4]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (James coyne) 2. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (The DeTomaso Registry Guy) 3. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (marshall smith) 4. Re: [SDP] The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Ed Mendez) 5. For Sale: Intake and Carb for Cleveland 351. (Fred Sweeney) 6. Matra Djet (Rod Kunishige) 7. Re: The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Scott Couchman) 8. Re: For Sale: Intake and Carb for Cleveland 351. (Dave Londry) 9. Re: [SDP] The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Ed Mendez) 10. Re: [SDP] Re: The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial (Effie Richards) 11. Re: Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? (Effie Richards) 12. Re: The Wash Crew - the Pantera commercial ([5]bill(a)incendium.com) 13. Fwd: Your Digital Pocket Guide to Monterey - Presented by Sports Car Market and Passport Transport (Mike Drew) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:10:55 +0000 From: James coyne <[6]tecnosound(a)hotmail.com> To: Rob Dumoulin <[7]rob(a)dumoulins.net>, Roland <[8]willibillie(a)live.de>, "Pantera Mail List" <[9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? Message-ID: <[10]SN1PR13MB0335054A8A13D02A22804171DF1F0(a)SN1PR13MB0335.namprd13.prod .outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I totally agree Rob . Very well stated . ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-[11]bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Rob Dumoulin <[12]rob(a)dumoulins.net> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 4:12 AM To: Roland; Pantera Mail List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know why the POCA general meeting last night did not occur? Roland, since even before MS was elected, he has been threatening members with lawsuits apparently as a form of intimidation. His recent comments directly state he intends to destroy POCA as an organization, I assume for his own pleasure or personal gain. I was not present on the call and did not hear the context of such a ban, but if any one person's actions were to not warrant such an outcome of being banned, what other behavior would have to take place before it would reach that level? That is an open question for everybody to decide personally. Is it more civil to degrade and intimidate in order to get others to quit or to set standards for expected behavior and let those standards apply to all members? The third option is to allow toxic behavior to fracture the club which is what has been happening the past 7 months. MS added me to his list of people to sue along the way as I was called a "Backstabbing Motherf$!@er". I can live with those petty threats, I just choose not to. Setting standards of decency that do not allow bullying and threats seems like a good idea to me, but I am just one opinion. On Aug 12, 2016 3:59 AM, "Roland" <[13]willibillie(a)live.de> wrote: > > First of all, i don't like the actions MS did ! > But banning MS for life? Isn't banning for life a relict from the dark age? What about his supporters? Send them out with a sign "I'm guilty" ? MS was voted by many for his promisises making Poca great again ( didn't i hear this very often lataly) What about his voters? Are they ashamed, for what he has done? No ! I haven't heard of one ! > > Roland > > > Am 11.08.2016 um 22:42 schrieb Ed Mendez <[14]edducati(a)mac.com>: > > > > He should have used PST, because Joe lives in AZ where they have no > > DST. At the moment AZ time and CA time are the same. > > > > Sorry > > > > It lasted until 7.58, but it was a great meeting, it was so much less > > tense. > > In a nutshell. > > Bob publicly announced and made a commitment that we will not be > > returning to pre-2016 BOD ways, keeping all the MS changes, keeping > > finances and BOD meetings open, etc. > > Waiting 1 week on Mike Burnett for a decision on his VP position > > Board appointments: > > Les is Past President > > Mike H is Profiles > > Jack D is Newsletter > > Josette is Store manager (non-board) > > Talked about the store and the website > > Talked about banning MS for life. > > Ed > >

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NPC Someone asked about Ferrari 355s?
by Ken Green 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Last night on Carfix they restored parts of a Ferrari 355 interior, including having a bunch of parts restored by a shop in Florida. They said they save a lot of $s. The shop specialized in restoring the finish on switched ect. that had become a gummy mess. Last night on Carfix they restored parts of a Ferrari 355 interior, including having a bunch of parts restored by a shop in Florida. They said they save a lot of $s. The shop specialized in restoring the finish on switched ect. that had become a gummy mess.

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Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator Dilemma
by MikeLDrew＠aol.com 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a shroud is a necessity, which I understand. >>>Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is not strictly true. It all depends on the configuration of your radiator currently. Do you have it in the stock position, with pusher fans? If so, the car came from the factory with two side pieces and a top cover, which helped ensure all air flowing through the grille would be forced through the radiator and not spill around the sides. If you don't have those, you definitely owe it to yourself to get them. Do you have your radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans? If so, it's still important to shroud the sides and top as much as possible. Aftermarket sucker fans are pretty powerful, and while there is perhaps something to be gained by fitting the back side of the radiator with an all-encompassing shroud, there is also something to be lost, as at high speeds the air can stagnate because it can't escape quickly enough due to the blockage formed by the shroud. Johnny Woods uses Flex-A-Lite sucker fans with integral shroud on his car, and he experienced high-speed overheating that he attributed to this problem. He cut holes in the shroud and fitted hinged flaps that blow up when the pressure behind the radiator becomes excessive, and that fixed his problem completely. >I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks. >>>Be very happy. They have been known to leak, especially the early ones. Sometimes the radiator is so large that it physically touches the body, and when the body flexes it bends the radiator and causes it to leak. As long as it is properly mounted, with rubber isolation both at the bottom and the sides, it should be fine. So if you have a radiator that isn't leaking, why are you talking about changing it? The Fluidyne radiator is more than you need, as long as the system is properly bled and the fans are working etc. So what exactly are we talking about here? >The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) - don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read from someone was just to get his radiator and “be done with it”. >>>That was, I thought, a laughable suggestion to spend $2000 to fix a $200 problem, of a perfectly good radiator that had sprung a leak and just needed to be repaired (which it subsequently was). >I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume it's shrouded. >>>The DQ radiator made by Ron Dennis is fantastic, no doubt. >Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And Why? >>>Aluminum's chief advantage is that it is lighter. However, the disadvantage is (supposedly) that it doesn't shed heat as well, so for equal heat-shedding performance, an aluminum radiator needs to be made larger, which means it holds more water, which means you gain back much of the weight you supposedly saved once it's in the car. The chief disadvantage of aluminum is that they are normally not repairable. The discussion last week centered around a high-quality brass Hall radiator that had sprung a leak; a crooked shop quoted $600 to repair it which is as much as it costs to replace it. He took it to an honest shop and they totally restored it for $250. When you are driving down the road and your radiator springs a leak far from home, you can normally get a brass radiator repaired locally without much trouble. When an aluminum radiator picks up a rock and springs a leak, you take it out and throw it away. :<( > I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all the experts - i know you are out there. >>>You will likely get differing opinions, and that's fine. However, I would say that you are talking about replacing your radiator without first identifying exactly WHY you are talking about replacing it? If your Fluidyne was leaking, that would be an automatic response. But if it's not leaking, what is your issue? Overheating at slow speeds but cools fine when going down the road? That's either poor fan performance, wrong thermostat (Windsor instead of Cleveland), or air in the system. Overheating all the time, even when going down the road? Almost assuredly air in the system. Neither condition requires a radiator change. If you had a stock, original radiator that was visibly leaking and whose fins had separated from the core, for sure you would want to replace it. As it is, IF you even have a problem, it's a maintenance issue. In fact, changing the radiator is likely to make the problem worse, not better, if when you refill it you don't bleed it properly. So please, tell us exactly what is prompting this discussion. Cheers! Mike Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a shroud is a necessity, which I understand. >>>Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is not strictly true. It all depends on the configuration of your radiator currently. Do you have it in the stock position, with pusher fans? If so, the car came from the factory with two side pieces and a top cover, which helped ensure all air flowing through the grille would be forced through the radiator and not spill around the sides. If you don't have those, you definitely owe it to yourself to get them. Do you have your radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans? If so, it's still important to shroud the sides and top as much as possible. Aftermarket sucker fans are pretty powerful, and while there is perhaps something to be gained by fitting the back side of the radiator with an all-encompassing shroud, there is also something to be lost, as at high speeds the air can stagnate because it can't escape quickly enough due to the blockage formed by the shroud. Johnny Woods uses Flex-A-Lite sucker fans with integral shroud on his car, and he experienced high-speed overheating that he attributed to this problem. He cut holes in the shroud and fitted hinged flaps that blow up when the pressure behind the radiator becomes excessive, and that fixed his problem completely. >I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks. >>>Be very happy. They have been known to leak, especially the early ones. Sometimes the radiator is so large that it physically touches the body, and when the body flexes it bends the radiator and causes it to leak. As long as it is properly mounted, with rubber isolation both at the bottom and the sides, it should be fine. So if you have a radiator that isn't leaking, why are you talking about changing it? The Fluidyne radiator is more than you need, as long as the system is properly bled and the fans are working etc. So what exactly are we talking about here? >The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) - don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read from someone was just to get his radiator and abe done with ita. >>>That was, I thought, a laughable suggestion to spend $2000 to fix a $200 problem, of a perfectly good radiator that had sprung a leak and just needed to be repaired (which it subsequently was). >I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume it's shrouded. >>>The DQ radiator made by Ron Dennis is fantastic, no doubt. >Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And Why? >>>Aluminum's chief advantage is that it is lighter. However, the disadvantage is (supposedly) that it doesn't shed heat as well, so for equal heat-shedding performance, an aluminum radiator needs to be made larger, which means it holds more water, which means you gain back much of the weight you supposedly saved once it's in the car. The chief disadvantage of aluminum is that they are normally not repairable. The discussion last week centered around a high-quality brass Hall radiator that had sprung a leak; a crooked shop quoted $600 to repair it which is as much as it costs to replace it. He took it to an honest shop and they totally restored it for $250. When you are driving down the road and your radiator springs a leak far from home, you can normally get a brass radiator repaired locally without much trouble. When an aluminum radiator picks up a rock and springs a leak, you take it out and throw it away. :<( > I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all the experts - i know you are out there. >>>You will likely get differing opinions, and that's fine. However, I would say that you are talking about replacing your radiator without first identifying exactly WHY you are talking about replacing it? If your Fluidyne was leaking, that would be an automatic response. But if it's not leaking, what is your issue? Overheating at slow speeds but cools fine when going down the road? That's either poor fan performance, wrong thermostat (Windsor instead of Cleveland), or air in the system. Overheating all the time, even when going down the road? Almost assuredly air in the system. Neither condition requires a radiator change. If you had a stock, original radiator that was visibly leaking and whose fins had separated from the core, for sure you would want to replace it. As it is, IF you even have a problem, it's a maintenance issue. In fact, changing the radiator is likely to make the problem worse, not better, if when you refill it you don't bleed it properly. So please, tell us exactly what is prompting this discussion. Cheers! Mike

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correction
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

sorry, that was Judy Mc. not Md. -------------------------------------- So, Laurie, please explain to me why you signed up to be the new Profiles Editor for Shortt and then bailed out. GoNancy Please note: message attached From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: paso750(a)gmail.com, jpoca2(a)hotmail.com, erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com, julian_kift(a)hotmail.com Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 02:17:56 -0400 sorry, that was Judy Mc. not Md. -------------------------------------- So, Laurie, please explain to me why you signed up to be the new Profiles Editor for Shortt and then bailed out. GoNancy Please note: message attached From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: [2]paso750(a)gmail.com, [3]jpoca2(a)hotmail.com, [4]erichards(a)zogob.sdc oxmail.com, [5]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com Cc: [6]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 02:17:56 -0400 References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 3. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 4. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 5. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com

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Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by gonancy＠juno.com 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

So, Laurie, please explain to me why you signed up to be the new Profiles Editor for Shortt and then bailed out. GoNancy Please note: message attached From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: paso750(a)gmail.com, jpoca2(a)hotmail.com, erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com, julian_kift(a)hotmail.com Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 02:17:56 -0400 ____________________________________________________________ gundrymd.com How To Fix Your Fatigue And Get More Energy http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/57b2c05fba8405e514dst03vuc Thank you, Mike, for your explanation and your dedicated efforts in getting issue #3 out. I'm sorry for the trouble you've endured and the illness in your family but that does not answer the question of the cost comparatives for the savings the new printer was offering. The difference is huge. If that was a misquote, it's surprising such a mistake was overlooked when first entertained by the board. It's a simple issue and a change everyone was looking forward to. The idea of having all color publications for a great savings was a wonderful new idea for POCA. Why so much drama in just getting the true facts? Why would Jack resign over this? People will always have unanswered questions if we are passing up something that would have been great. Wish facts were clarified and verified and that would end the matter. Laurie -----Original Message----- From: Michael Haney <paso750(a)gmail.com> To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>; 'Effie Richards' <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com>; 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari(a)aol.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 10:36 pm Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] resignations Thank you very much, Judy. I really wish this thread would just die. I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to do since it's the truth. Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired of hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of POCA. I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't fun anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening. As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 even went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't want to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any more to Shortt's regime, but my conscience won. Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a whole bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was at work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her questions. Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, our Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created. Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a connection between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in Reno, Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know. My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and who might finally be able to come back home in a couple more. Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest? Mike Haney -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Judith McCartney Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff reasons. Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator. > From: erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700 > To: julian_kift(a)hotmail.com > CC: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some time to come up with one. > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still > > doesn't sit well in my gut. > > > > > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts w > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an > > outright stand against changing printer? > > > > > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only > > pennies between it? > > > > > > Julian > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of > > marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? > > Marshall > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso > > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM > > > > Dear AJ, > > > > I have always respected you and your > > opinions but in this case you are > > incorrect as far as the resignation of > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board > > of Directors' conference call where he was > > asked to stay and he > > adamantly refused to if the printer > > changed. Jack's resignation was > > specifically because of the change in > > printer! You can go research > > that phone conference call, or the minutes > > of the meeting, as the facts > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's > > resignation, that was done by his > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely > > were aligned with their > > parents. > > > > Laurie > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [1]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing > > out on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more > > for B/W then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that > > the present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it > > out for everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice > > to > > just sit back and read a paper > > copy? too.? It's also easier to > > hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? > > How do you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include > > a? "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can > > set an address and phone number, > > if I > > could check a box for Electronic? > > delivery or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter? content that > > in > > essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone > > else to follow the? by-laws (and > > it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA? has changed printers > > -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out > > of > > the business.? So the "family > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not > > a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > &? Shelley? Mar > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue > > 20 > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to > > [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > > Wide Web, visit > > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > or, via email, send a message with subject > > or body 'help' to > > detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com > > You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject > > line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." > > Daily Detomaso List Digest > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (marshallgsmith) > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox) > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (Stephen) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 > > From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > Message-ID: > > <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have a couple questions Bob: > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues > > levels" seems to be making the > > issue too complex. There are some members > > that are opting to not have > > printed magazines mailed which should make > > those members eligible for a > > discount because of the savings. > >> What is your estimate of the length > > of time that it would take the > > board to arrange for a vote of the > > membership to change the bylaws to > > allow for this discount? > >> Who specifically made that > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > >> I agree that the editors should have > > the most influence ?on the > > process. ?However, our editors of both > > publications seem to have a hard > > time reporting to the members about ANY > > issues pertaining to the > > publication's themselves. Might that > > change in the near future or will > > radio silence be the norm here? > > Marshall Smith > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.? > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the > > pipeline.?? However, there > > are > > restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.? > > There > > are no provisions for multiple dues > > levels,? particularly pertaining to > > how a > > member elects to have their club? > > publications delivered, etc.? That > > will > > take time as any changes or? amendments > > must be approved by the whole > > membership. > > The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would? continue as a print > > publication for all except foreign members > > who elect to? receive it > > digitally.? > > As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is? so > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit? > > cost.? So as > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the > > cost per unit? increases but > > not > > proportionately.?? > > An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online? printer and > > the > > current printer for both printing and > > mailing and the difference? was > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but > > for the whole run.? > > As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have? the most > > influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are? the > > ones who > > must work with the printers and mailing > > houses on a regular? basis. > > Bob Reid? > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. > > Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [14]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard > > wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison > > of printing costs, so for me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing out > > on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W > > then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't > > account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that the > > present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it out for > > everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,? > > though I do admit it's nice to > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? > > It's also easier to hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do > > you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), that > > the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include a? > > "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an > > address and phone number, if > > I > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery > > or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? item > > (Profiles versus Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity > > discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same amount to > > print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine > > those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has > > claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did > > not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over "control" > > of newsletter? content that in > > essence fell outside the bounds of the > > by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone else to > > follow the? by-laws (and it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA? > > has changed printers -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"? > > previously eluded to, was not a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for > > inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, > > Retired > > &? Shelley? Marie > > Spokane,? WA > > ****************************** > > [15]http://w7tsc.org > > [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing? list > > [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To? manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use > > the? links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to? forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the? > > list. They > > also grant the list owner permission to > > maintain an archive or? approve > > the > > archiving of list? messages. > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in > > the pipeline.? However, there > > are > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently stand. > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple > > dues levels, > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member > > elects to have their club > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will > > take time as any changes or > > ?? amendments must be approved by the > > whole membership. > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would continue as a > > print > > ?? publication for all except foreign > > members who elect to receive it > > ?? digitally. > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is so > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced > > and shipped, the cost per unit > > ?? increases but not proportionately. > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online printer > > and > > ?? the current printer for both printing > > and mailing and the difference > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per > > unit but for the whole run. > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have the most > > ?? influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are > > the > > ?? ones who must work with the printers > > and mailing houses on a regular > > ?? basis. > > ?? Bob Reid > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > ???? interested > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > ???? me, > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing > > out > > ???? on > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for > > B/W then something is amiss. > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the > > present board members will > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out > > for everyone. > > ???? I am on-board with electronic > > delivery, though I do admit it's > > nice > > ???? to > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy > > too.? It's also easier to > > ???? hand-off > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How > > do you really fix that? > > ???? I would think (and I don't know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > ???? database might be able to include a > > "preference" as part of the > > ???? member's > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can > > set an address and phone > > number, > > ???? if I > > ???? could check a box for Electronic > > delivery or paper copies, or > > both, > > ???? and > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > ???? that might be ideal. > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very > > well > > ???? could be that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > ???? print > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations > > the > > ???? board will look at as well. > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have heard (from > > ???? more > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike > > did not resign "because POCA > > ???? changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter content > > that > > ???? in > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For a guy that > > ???? appeared > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else > > to follow the by-laws (and > > ???? it's > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't feel they > > ???? applied > > ???? to him. > > ???? For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA has changed printers > > ???? -twice- > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related to the DeRykes) got > > out > > ???? of > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" > > previously eluded to, was > > not > > ???? a > > ???? factor in the resignations. > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > ???? Asa? Jay > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > ???? &? Shelley Marie > > ???? Spokane, WA > > ???? ****************************** > > ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org > > ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > ???? > > _______________________________________________ > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list > > ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > ???? To manage your subscription (change > > email address, unsubscribe, > > ???? etc.) use the links above. > > ???? Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward > > ???? any message posted here to all past, > > current, or future members of > > ???? the list. They also grant the list > > owner permission to maintain an > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of > > list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the > > list. They also grant the list owner > > permission to maintain an archive > > or approve the archiving of list > > messages. > > Thank you, Mike, for your explanation and your dedicated efforts in getting issue #3 out. I'm sorry for the trouble you've endured and the illness in your family but that does not answer the question of the cost comparatives for the savings the new printer was offering. The difference is huge. If that was a misquote, it's surprising such a mistake was overlooked when first entertained by the board. It's a simple issue and a change everyone was looking forward to. The idea of having all color publications for a great savings was a wonderful new idea for POCA. Why so much drama in just getting the true facts? Why would Jack resign over this? People will always have unanswered questions if we are passing up something that would have been great. Wish facts were clarified and verified and that would end the matter. Laurie -----Original Message----- From: Michael Haney <paso750(a)gmail.com> To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>; 'Effie Richards' <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com>; 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari(a)aol.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 10:36 pm Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] resignations Thank you very much, Judy. I really wish this thread would just die. I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to do since it's the truth. Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired of hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of POCA. I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't fun anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening. As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 even went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't want to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any more to Shortt's regime, but my conscience won. Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a whole bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was at work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her questions. Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, our Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created. Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a connection between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in Reno, Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know. My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and who might finally be able to come back home in a couple more. Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest? Mike Haney -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Judith McCartney Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff reasons. Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator. > From: erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700 > To: julian_kift(a)hotmail.com > CC: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some time to come up with one. > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still > > doesn't sit well in my gut. > > > > > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts w > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an > > outright stand against changing printer? > > > > > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only > > pennies between it? > > > > > > Julian > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of > > marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? > > Marshall > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso > > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM > > > > Dear AJ, > > > > I have always respected you and your > > opinions but in this case you are > > incorrect as far as the resignation of > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board > > of Directors' conference call where he was > > asked to stay and he > > adamantly refused to if the printer > > changed. Jack's resignation was > > specifically because of the change in > > printer! You can go research > > that phone conference call, or the minutes > > of the meeting, as the facts > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's > > resignation, that was done by his > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely > > were aligned with their > > parents. > > > > Laurie > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [1]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing > > out on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more > > for B/W then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that > > the present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it > > out for everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice > > to > > just sit back and read a paper > > copy? too.? It's also easier to > > hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? > > How do you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include > > a? "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can > > set an address and phone number, > > if I > > could check a box for Electronic? > > delivery or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter? content that > > in > > essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone > > else to follow the? by-laws (and > > it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA? has changed printers > > -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out > > of > > the business.? So the "family > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not > > a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > &? Shelley? Mar > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue > > 20 > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to > > [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > > Wide Web, visit > > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > or, via email, send a message with subject > > or body 'help' to > > detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com > > You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject > > line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." > > Daily Detomaso List Digest > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (marshallgsmith) > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox) > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (Stephen) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 > > From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > Message-ID: > > <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have a couple questions Bob: > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues > > levels" seems to be making the > > issue too complex. There are some members > > that are opting to not have > > printed magazines mailed which should make > > those members eligible for a > > discount because of the savings. > >> What is your estimate of the length > > of time that it would take the > > board to arrange for a vote of the > > membership to change the bylaws to > > allow for this discount? > >> Who specifically made that > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > >> I agree that the editors should have > > the most influence ?on the > > process. ?However, our editors of both > > publications seem to have a hard > > time reporting to the members about ANY > > issues pertaining to the > > publication's themselves. Might that > > change in the near future or will > > radio silence be the norm here? > > Marshall Smith > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.? > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the > > pipeline.?? However, there > > are > > restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.? > > There > > are no provisions for multiple dues > > levels,? particularly pertaining to > > how a > > member elects to have their club? > > publications delivered, etc.? That > > will > > take time as any changes or? amendments > > must be approved by the whole > > membership. > > The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would? continue as a print > > publication for all except foreign members > > who elect to? receive it > > digitally.? > > As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is? so > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit? > > cost.? So as > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the > > cost per unit? increases but > > not > > proportionately.?? > > An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online? printer and > > the > > current printer for both printing and > > mailing and the difference? was > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but > > for the whole run.? > > As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have? the most > > influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are? the > > ones who > > must work with the printers and mailing > > houses on a regular? basis. > > Bob Reid? > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. > > Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [14]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard > > wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison > > of printing costs, so for me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing out > > on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W > > then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't > > account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that the > > present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it out for > > everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,? > > though I do admit it's nice to > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? > > It's also easier to hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do > > you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), that > > the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include a? > > "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an > > address and phone number, if > > I > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery > > or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? item > > (Profiles versus Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity > > discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same amount to > > print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine > > those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has > > claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did > > not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over "control" > > of newsletter? content that in > > essence fell outside the bounds of the > > by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone else to > > follow the? by-laws (and it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA? > > has changed printers -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"? > > previously eluded to, was not a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for > > inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, > > Retired > > &? Shelley? Marie > > Spokane,? WA > > ****************************** > > [15]http://w7tsc.org > > [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing? list > > [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To? manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use > > the? links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to? forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the? > > list. They > > also grant the list owner permission to > > maintain an archive or? approve > > the > > archiving of list? messages. > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in > > the pipeline.? However, there > > are > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently stand. > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple > > dues levels, > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member > > elects to have their club > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will > > take time as any changes or > > ?? amendments must be approved by the > > whole membership. > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would continue as a > > print > > ?? publication for all except foreign > > members who elect to receive it > > ?? digitally. > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is so > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced > > and shipped, the cost per unit > > ?? increases but not proportionately. > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online printer > > and > > ?? the current printer for both printing > > and mailing and the difference > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per > > unit but for the whole run. > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have the most > > ?? influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are > > the > > ?? ones who must work with the printers > > and mailing houses on a regular > > ?? basis. > > ?? Bob Reid > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > ???? interested > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > ???? me, > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing > > out > > ???? on > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for > > B/W then something is amiss. > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the > > present board members will > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out > > for everyone. > > ???? I am on-board with electronic > > delivery, though I do admit it's > > nice > > ???? to > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy > > too.? It's also easier to > > ???? hand-off > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How > > do you really fix that? > > ???? I would think (and I don't know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > ???? database might be able to include a > > "preference" as part of the > > ???? member's > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can > > set an address and phone > > number, > > ???? if I > > ???? could check a box for Electronic > > delivery or paper copies, or > > both, > > ???? and > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > ???? that might be ideal. > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very > > well > > ???? could be that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > ???? print > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations > > the > > ???? board will look at as well. > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have heard (from > > ???? more > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike > > did not resign "because POCA > > ???? changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter content > > that > > ???? in > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For a guy that > > ???? appeared > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else > > to follow the by-laws (and > > ???? it's > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't feel they > > ???? applied > > ???? to him. > > ???? For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA has changed printers > > ???? -twice- > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related to the DeRykes) got > > out > > ???? of > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" > > previously eluded to, was > > not > > ???? a > > ???? factor in the resignations. > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > ???? Asa? Jay > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > ???? &? Shelley Marie > > ???? Spokane, WA > > ???? ****************************** > > ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org > > ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > ???? > > _______________________________________________ > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list > > ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > ???? To manage your subscription (change > > email address, unsubscribe, > > ???? etc.) use the links above. > > ???? Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward > > ???? any message posted here to all past, > > current, or future members of > > ???? the list. They also grant the list > > owner permission to maintain an > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of > > list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the > > list. They also grant the list owner > > permission to maintain an archive > > or approve the archiving of list > > messages. > >

2 1

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by marshall smith 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

8 9

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by Ed Mendez 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

150% Bill - especially when you have nothing to lie about. On Aug 15, 2016, at 07:01 PM, bill <bill(a)incendium.com> wrote: "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,, And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify....... Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari(a)aol.com, marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still doesn't sit well in my gut. Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand against changing printer? Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only pennies between it? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. 150% Bill - especially when you have nothing to lie about. On Aug 15, 2016, at 07:01 PM, bill <bill(a)incendium.com> wrote: "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,, And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify....... Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00) To: [1]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, [2]laurieferrari(a)aol.com, marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still doesn't sit well in my gut. Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand against changing printer? Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only pennies between it? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM To: [3]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; [4]laurieferrari(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: [5]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15][7]http://w7tsc.org [16][8]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20][10]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21][11]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23][12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: P6746(a)aol.com, asajay(a)asajay.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: asajay(a)asajay.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? http://w7tsc.org ???? http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

6 8

Radiator Dilemma
by B. SEIB 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Lots of good info here Dennis: http://www.no-rosion.com/tech_coolant.htm No-rosion says distilled water should not be used as straight water coolant, because it can cause damage to system metals. The reason has to do with how distilled water is created. During the distillation process, water is vaporized into its gaseous phase, so all impurities are left behind. These impurities include a number of minerals, including calcium and magnesium, the two components of hardness. The water is then condensed back into its liquid phase, so the resulting liquid is pure water. In fact, some of the purest water on earth. The problem is that distillation strips impurities from water, resulting in water molecules that are electrochemically imbalanced. So distilled water will actually strip electrons from the metals in a cooling system as it attempts to rebalance itself electrochemically. This can result in damage to metals in a cooling system. Using distilled water in combination with 50% antifreeze effectively cuts the amount of distilled water in half. By compounding with glycol, it will not cause damage to metals in a cooling system. For this reason, it is safe to use distilled water in a 50/50 mix. Barry ___________________________________________________________________________ Dennis Valdez sjcarguy60 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 20:02:31 EDT 2016 Interesting topic. I have a fluidyne radiator in my car installed by the PO several years ago. No leaks at all at this point. I bought a zinc anode and plan on putting it in on the next flush:Here is the one I bought from Amazon Are most people using distilled water mixed 50/50 with coolant? I seem to recall reading either on the PI forum or in the newsletter that tap water is better. Dennis

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by bill 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

"If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,,And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify....... CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari(a)aol.com, marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still doesn't sit well in my gut. Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand against changing printer? Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only pennies between it? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,, And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify....... Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari(a)aol.com, marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still doesn't sit well in my gut. Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand against changing printer? Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only pennies between it? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? Marshall -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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