- DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Monterey Reunion - Laguna Seca corral pass wanted
by Julian Kift 17 Aug '16

17 Aug '16

Looks like I will be able to get the Pantera roadworthy for the Monterey weekend, so I went to purchase tickets and a corral pass for Laguna Seca, however they are apparently sold out on the corrals. If anyone has a corral pass they are not intending to use for Sat/Sun I will gladly purchase it. Thanks, Julian Looks like I will be able to get the Pantera roadworthy for the Monterey weekend, so I went to purchase tickets and a corral pass for Laguna Seca, however they are apparently sold out on the corrals. If anyone has a corral pass they are not intending to use for Sat/Sun I will gladly purchase it. Thanks, Julian

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factory drawings
by Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. 17 Aug '16

17 Aug '16

Would copies of this drawing or similar be available? (attached JPGs) Would prefer well made digital copies. Joe/5177 Would copies of this drawing or similar be available? (attached JPGs) Would prefer well made digital copies. Joe/5177

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Paddle Shifter Pantera
by The DeTomaso Registry Guy 17 Aug '16

17 Aug '16

I just received some details on a lime Pantera for sale, with a paddle shifter. Did anyone go see this car in person? Chuck The De Tomaso Registry Guy http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp I just received some details on a lime Pantera for sale, with a paddle shifter. Did anyone go see this car in person? Chuck The De Tomaso Registry Guy [1]http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp References 1. http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp

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Re: [DeTomaso] [TPR] SORT 1 Mile Shoot out results
by ehpantera 17 Aug '16

17 Aug '16

Not this time. At SSCC yes. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: adin(a)frontier.net Date: 8/16/16 11:10 PM (GMT-05:00) To: mark skwarek <ehpantera(a)yahoo.com> Cc: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com>, Dave Londry <davel(a)emspace.com>, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, Asa Jay Laughton via TPR <tpr(a)teampanteraracing.com>, Jim Wallace <pantera_4220(a)yahoo.com>, DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera(a)yahoo.com>, Curt and Deb Marsh <cmarsh(a)zoominternet.net> Subject: Re: [TPR] [DeTomaso] SORT 1 Mile Shoot out results Mark, thanks for the rundown. No chin spoiler (like from Silver State last year)? I run a Quella little chin spoiler- gets a little light around 160! Pretty stout speeds! David Sent from my little handheld gizmo. On Aug 16, 2016, at 8:33 PM, mark skwarek via TPR <tpr(a)teampanteraracing.com> wrote: Dear Joseph,Thanks for your interest. 5481 was run for this event without any aero mods for all venues. The car was aligned to factory specs except for the caster which is 6 + degrees courtesy of Johnny Woods. Transaxle has the standard ZF gearing. The engine was built by Dave McLain in Cuba, MO.. There is a detailed article regarding the build by Dan Jones at the following link. Basically 623 HP and 521 TQ. http://www.the351cforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=577 The headers that I used have 2" primaries (probably should be 1.875" s) with 3" collector and 3" exhaust pipe. No muffler. Tires are Sumitomo HTRZ111. Size 245/40/17 and 285/35/18 These are not the best tires for a one mile shootout, as they have a very high wear rating. I need them because I need a Y rated tire for SSCC next month. I prefer Toyo R888. In the One Mile Shootout I spun the tries through 1st gear in the first run. 2nd run I hit the rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd gear (7000RPM),. 3rd run, I hit the rev limiter in 1st gear. On all three runs the front hood popped open at approx. 165mph.Mark On Saturday, August 13, 2016 10:10 PM, "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> wrote: Given I am not familiar with everyone, how about a little about 5481. (ProvaMo has some photos) Tires, aero mods, engine, rpm limit, gearing? -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dave Londry Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 20:28 PM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] SORT 1 Mile Shoot out results Man that is consistant. I can't run 3 - 1/4 miles within 1.2 mph Dave On 2016-08-13 4:02 PM, ehpantera via DeTomaso wrote: > First-run 169 miles per hour > > Second run 169 .2 miles per hour > > 3rd run 170.2 miles per hour > > Just shows what a Pantera can do. > > Mark > > 5481 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ TPR mailing list TPR(a)teampanteraracing.com http://teampanteraracing.com/mailman/listinfo/tpr_teampanteraracing.com Not this time. At SSCC yes. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: adin(a)frontier.net Date: 8/16/16 11:10 PM (GMT-05:00) To: mark skwarek <ehpantera(a)yahoo.com> Cc: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com>, Dave Londry <davel(a)emspace.com>, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, Asa Jay Laughton via TPR <tpr(a)teampanteraracing.com>, Jim Wallace <pantera_4220(a)yahoo.com>, DENNIS ANTENUCCI <teampantera(a)yahoo.com>, Curt and Deb Marsh <cmarsh(a)zoominternet.net> Subject: Re: [TPR] [DeTomaso] SORT 1 Mile Shoot out results Mark, thanks for the rundown. No chin spoiler (like from Silver State last year)? I run a Quella little chin spoiler- gets a little light around 160! Pretty stout speeds! David Sent from my little handheld gizmo. On Aug 16, 2016, at 8:33 PM, mark skwarek via TPR <[1]tpr(a)teampanteraracing.com> wrote: Dear Joseph, Thanks for your interest. 5481 was run for this event without any aero mods for all venues. The car was aligned to factory specs except for the caster which is 6 + degrees courtesy of Johnny Woods . Transaxle has the standard ZF gearing. The engine was built by Dave McLain in Cuba, MO.. There is a detailed article regarding the build by Dan Jones at the following link. Basically 623 HP and 521 TQ. [2]http://www.the351cforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=577 The headers that I used have 2" primaries (probably should be 1.875" s) with 3" collector and 3" exhaust pipe. No muffler. Tires are Sumitomo HTRZ111. Size 245/40/17 and 285/35/18 These are not the best tires for a one mile shootout, as they have a very high wear rating. I need them because I need a Y rated tire for SSCC next month. I prefer Toyo R888. In the One Mile Shootout I spun the tries through 1st gear in the first run. 2nd run I hit the rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd gear (7000RPM),. 3rd run, I hit the rev limiter in 1st gear. On all three runs the front hood popped open at approx. 165mph. Mark On Saturday, August 13, 2016 10:10 PM, "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[3]byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> wrote: Given I am not familiar with everyone, how about a little about 5481. (ProvaMo has some photos) Tires, aero mods, engine, rpm limit, gearing? -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dave Londry Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 20:28 PM To: [5]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] SORT 1 Mile Shoot out results Man that is consistant. I can't run 3 - 1/4 miles within 1.2 mph Dave On 2016-08-13 4:02 PM, ehpantera via DeTomaso wrote: > First-run 169 miles per hour > > Second run 169 .2 miles per hour > > 3rd run 170.2 miles per hour > > Just shows what a Pantera can do. > > Mark > > 5481 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list > [6]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [8]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ TPR mailing list [10]TPR(a)teampanteraracing.com [11]http://teampanteraracing.com/mailman/listinfo/tpr_teampanteraracing .com References 1. mailto:tpr@teampanteraracing.com 2. http://www.the351cforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=577 3. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 8. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 10. mailto:TPR@teampanteraracing.com 11. http://teampanteraracing.com/mailman/listinfo/tpr_teampanteraracing.com

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SORT 1 Mile Shoot out results
by ehpantera 17 Aug '16

17 Aug '16

First-run 169 miles per hour Second run 169 .2 miles per hour 3rd run 170.2 miles per hour Just shows what a Pantera can do. Mark5481 First-run 169 miles per hour Second run 169 .2 miles per hour 3rd run 170.2 miles per hour Just shows what a Pantera can do. Mark 5481

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Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by marshallgsmith 17 Aug '16

17 Aug '16

Hey Michael, I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings. That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to move on with the rebuilding of this great club. Marshall SmithPresident, San Diego Panteras Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Michael Haney <paso750(a)gmail.com> Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00) To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards' <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari(a)aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Thank you very much, Judy. I really wish this thread would just die. I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to do since it's the truth. Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired of hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of POCA. I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't fun anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening. As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 even went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't want to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any more to Shortt's regime, but my conscience won. Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a whole bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was at work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her questions. Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, our Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created. Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a connection between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in Reno, Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know. My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and who might finally be able to come back home in a couple more. Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest? Mike Haney -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Judith McCartney Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff reasons. Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator. > From: erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700 > To: julian_kift(a)hotmail.com > CC: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some time to come up with one. > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still > > doesn't sit well in my gut. > > > > > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts w > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an > > outright stand against changing printer? > > > > > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only > > pennies between it? > > > > > > Julian > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of > > marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? > > Marshall > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso > > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM > > > > Dear AJ, > > > > I have always respected you and your > > opinions but in this case you are > > incorrect as far as the resignation of > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board > > of Directors' conference call where he was > > asked to stay and he > > adamantly refused to if the printer > > changed. Jack's resignation was > > specifically because of the change in > > printer! You can go research > > that phone conference call, or the minutes > > of the meeting, as the facts > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's > > resignation, that was done by his > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely > > were aligned with their > > parents. > > > > Laurie > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [1]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing > > out on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more > > for B/W then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that > > the present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it > > out for everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice > > to > > just sit back and read a paper > > copy? too.? It's also easier to > > hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? > > How do you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include > > a? "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can > > set an address and phone number, > > if I > > could check a box for Electronic? > > delivery or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter? content that > > in > > essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone > > else to follow the? by-laws (and > > it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA? has changed printers > > -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out > > of > > the business.? So the "family > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not > > a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > &? Shelley? Mar > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue > > 20 > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to > > [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > > Wide Web, visit > > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > or, via email, send a message with subject > > or body 'help' to > > detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com > > You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject > > line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." > > Daily Detomaso List Digest > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (marshallgsmith) > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox) > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (Stephen) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 > > From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > Message-ID: > > <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have a couple questions Bob: > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues > > levels" seems to be making the > > issue too complex. There are some members > > that are opting to not have > > printed magazines mailed which should make > > those members eligible for a > > discount because of the savings. > >> What is your estimate of the length > > of time that it would take the > > board to arrange for a vote of the > > membership to change the bylaws to > > allow for this discount? > >> Who specifically made that > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > >> I agree that the editors should have > > the most influence ?on the > > process. ?However, our editors of both > > publications seem to have a hard > > time reporting to the members about ANY > > issues pertaining to the > > publication's themselves. Might that > > change in the near future or will > > radio silence be the norm here? > > Marshall Smith > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.? > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the > > pipeline.?? However, there > > are > > restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.? > > There > > are no provisions for multiple dues > > levels,? particularly pertaining to > > how a > > member elects to have their club? > > publications delivered, etc.? That > > will > > take time as any changes or? amendments > > must be approved by the whole > > membership. > > The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would? continue as a print > > publication for all except foreign members > > who elect to? receive it > > digitally.? > > As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is? so > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit? > > cost.? So as > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the > > cost per unit? increases but > > not > > proportionately.?? > > An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online? printer and > > the > > current printer for both printing and > > mailing and the difference? was > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but > > for the whole run.? > > As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have? the most > > influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are? the > > ones who > > must work with the printers and mailing > > houses on a regular? basis. > > Bob Reid? > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. > > Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [14]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard > > wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison > > of printing costs, so for me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing out > > on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W > > then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't > > account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that the > > present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it out for > > everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,? > > though I do admit it's nice to > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? > > It's also easier to hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do > > you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), that > > the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include a? > > "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an > > address and phone number, if > > I > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery > > or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? item > > (Profiles versus Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity > > discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same amount to > > print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine > > those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has > > claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did > > not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over "control" > > of newsletter? content that in > > essence fell outside the bounds of the > > by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone else to > > follow the? by-laws (and it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA? > > has changed printers -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"? > > previously eluded to, was not a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for > > inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, > > Retired > > &? Shelley? Marie > > Spokane,? WA > > ****************************** > > [15]http://w7tsc.org > > [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing? list > > [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To? manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use > > the? links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to? forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the? > > list. They > > also grant the list owner permission to > > maintain an archive or? approve > > the > > archiving of list? messages. > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in > > the pipeline.? However, there > > are > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently stand. > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple > > dues levels, > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member > > elects to have their club > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will > > take time as any changes or > > ?? amendments must be approved by the > > whole membership. > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would continue as a > > print > > ?? publication for all except foreign > > members who elect to receive it > > ?? digitally. > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is so > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced > > and shipped, the cost per unit > > ?? increases but not proportionately. > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online printer > > and > > ?? the current printer for both printing > > and mailing and the difference > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per > > unit but for the whole run. > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have the most > > ?? influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are > > the > > ?? ones who must work with the printers > > and mailing houses on a regular > > ?? basis. > > ?? Bob Reid > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > ???? interested > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > ???? me, > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing > > out > > ???? on > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for > > B/W then something is amiss. > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the > > present board members will > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out > > for everyone. > > ???? I am on-board with electronic > > delivery, though I do admit it's > > nice > > ???? to > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy > > too.? It's also easier to > > ???? hand-off > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How > > do you really fix that? > > ???? I would think (and I don't know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > ???? database might be able to include a > > "preference" as part of the > > ???? member's > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can > > set an address and phone > > number, > > ???? if I > > ???? could check a box for Electronic > > delivery or paper copies, or > > both, > > ???? and > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > ???? that might be ideal. > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very > > well > > ???? could be that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > ???? print > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations > > the > > ???? board will look at as well. > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have heard (from > > ???? more > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike > > did not resign "because POCA > > ???? changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter content > > that > > ???? in > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For a guy that > > ???? appeared > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else > > to follow the by-laws (and > > ???? it's > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't feel they > > ???? applied > > ???? to him. > > ???? For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA has changed printers > > ???? -twice- > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related to the DeRykes) got > > out > > ???? of > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" > > previously eluded to, was > > not > > ???? a > > ???? factor in the resignations. > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > ???? Asa? Jay > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > ???? &? Shelley Marie > > ???? Spokane, WA > > ???? ****************************** > > ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org > > ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > ???? > > _______________________________________________ > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list > > ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > ???? To manage your subscription (change > > email address, unsubscribe, > > ???? etc.) use the links above. > > ???? Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward > > ???? any message posted here to all past, > > current, or future members of > > ???? the list. They also grant the list > > owner permission to maintain an > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of > > list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the > > list. They also grant the list owner > > permission to maintain an archive > > or approve the archiving of list > > messages. > > Hey Michael, I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings. That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to move on with the rebuilding of this great club. Marshall Smith President, San Diego Panteras Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Michael Haney <paso750(a)gmail.com> Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00) To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards' <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari(a)aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Thank you very much, Judy. I really wish this thread would just die. I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to do since it's the truth. Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired of hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of POCA. I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't fun anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening. As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 even went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't want to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any more to Shortt's regime, but my conscience won. Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a whole bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was at work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her questions. Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, our Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created. Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a connection between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in Reno, Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know. My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and who might finally be able to come back home in a couple more. Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest? Mike Haney -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Judith McCartney Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff reasons. Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator. > From: erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700 > To: julian_kift(a)hotmail.com > CC: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some time to come up with one. > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still > > doesn't sit well in my gut. > > > > > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts w > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an > > outright stand against changing printer? > > > > > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only > > pennies between it? > > > > > > Julian > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of > > marshall smith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard. > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? > > Marshall > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso > > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM > > > > Dear AJ, > > > > I have always respected you and your > > opinions but in this case you are > > incorrect as far as the resignation of > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board > > of Directors' conference call where he was > > asked to stay and he > > adamantly refused to if the printer > > changed. Jack's resignation was > > specifically because of the change in > > printer! You can go research > > that phone conference call, or the minutes > > of the meeting, as the facts > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's > > resignation, that was done by his > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely > > were aligned with their > > parents. > > > > Laurie > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [1]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing > > out on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more > > for B/W then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that > > the present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it > > out for everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice > > to > > just sit back and read a paper > > copy? too.? It's also easier to > > hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? > > How do you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include > > a? "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can > > set an address and phone number, > > if I > > could check a box for Electronic? > > delivery or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter? content that > > in > > essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone > > else to follow the? by-laws (and > > it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA? has changed printers > > -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out > > of > > the business.? So the "family > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not > > a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > &? Shelley? Mar > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > To: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue > > 20 > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to > > [2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > > Wide Web, visit > > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > or, via email, send a message with subject > > or body 'help' to > > detomaso-[4]request(a)server.detomasolist.com > > You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > detomaso-[5]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject > > line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." > > Daily Detomaso List Digest > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (marshallgsmith) > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox) > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > electronic (Stephen) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 > > From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > To: [7]P6746(a)aol.com, [8]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > Message-ID: > > <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have a couple questions Bob: > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues > > levels" seems to be making the > > issue too complex. There are some members > > that are opting to not have > > printed magazines mailed which should make > > those members eligible for a > > discount because of the savings. > >> What is your estimate of the length > > of time that it would take the > > board to arrange for a vote of the > > membership to change the bylaws to > > allow for this discount? > >> Who specifically made that > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > >> I agree that the editors should have > > the most influence ?on the > > process. ?However, our editors of both > > publications seem to have a hard > > time reporting to the members about ANY > > issues pertaining to the > > publication's themselves. Might that > > change in the near future or will > > radio silence be the norm here? > > Marshall Smith > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [12]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > paper vs. electronic > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.? > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the > > pipeline.?? However, there > > are > > restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.? > > There > > are no provisions for multiple dues > > levels,? particularly pertaining to > > how a > > member elects to have their club? > > publications delivered, etc.? That > > will > > take time as any changes or? amendments > > must be approved by the whole > > membership. > > The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would? continue as a print > > publication for all except foreign members > > who elect to? receive it > > digitally.? > > As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is? so > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit? > > cost.? So as > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the > > cost per unit? increases but > > not > > proportionately.?? > > An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online? printer and > > the > > current printer for both printing and > > mailing and the difference? was > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but > > for the whole run.? > > As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have? the most > > influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are? the > > ones who > > must work with the printers and mailing > > houses on a regular? basis. > > Bob Reid? > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. > > Eastern Daylight Time,? > > [14]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard > > wrong), the board was > > interested > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison > > of printing costs, so for me, > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing out > > on > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W > > then something is amiss.? > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't > > account for all costs > > properly.? I? have more faith that the > > present board members will > > properly investigate? and sort it out for > > everyone. > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,? > > though I do admit it's nice to > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? > > It's also easier to hand-off > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do > > you really fix that? > > I would think (and I don't? know), that > > the ClubExpress membership > > database might be able to include a? > > "preference" as part of the > > member's > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an > > address and phone number, if > > I > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery > > or paper copies, or both, > > and > > select whatever I wanted for each? item > > (Profiles versus Newsletter), > > that might be ideal. > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity > > discounting.? It very well > > could be? that it costs the same amount to > > print 500 as it does to > > print > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine > > those are considerations the > > board will? look at as well. > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has > > claimed, I have? heard (from > > more > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did > > not resign? "because POCA > > changed printers;" it was over "control" > > of newsletter? content that in > > essence fell outside the bounds of the > > by-laws.? For? a guy that > > appeared > > to try very hard to get everyone else to > > follow the? by-laws (and it's > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't? feel they > > applied > > to him. > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA? > > has changed printers -twice- > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"? > > previously eluded to, was not a > > factor in the resignations. > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for > > inflation) > > Asa? Jay > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, > > Retired > > &? Shelley? Marie > > Spokane,? WA > > ****************************** > > [15]http://w7tsc.org > > [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing? list > > [17]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To? manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use > > the? links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to? forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the? > > list. They > > also grant the list owner permission to > > maintain an archive or? approve > > the > > archiving of list? messages. > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in > > the pipeline.? However, there > > are > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the > > By-Laws as they currently stand. > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple > > dues levels, > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member > > elects to have their club > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will > > take time as any changes or > > ?? amendments must be approved by the > > whole membership. > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the > > Profiles would continue as a > > print > > ?? publication for all except foreign > > members who elect to receive it > > ?? digitally. > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is > > that first copy that is so > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > that bring down the per unit > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced > > and shipped, the cost per unit > > ?? increases but not proportionately. > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made > > between an online printer > > and > > ?? the current printer for both printing > > and mailing and the difference > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per > > unit but for the whole run. > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the > > editors who should have the most > > ?? influence as to how and where their > > product is produced.? They are > > the > > ?? ones who must work with the printers > > and mailing houses on a regular > > ?? basis. > > ?? Bob Reid > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > ?? [19]asajay(a)asajay.com > > writes: > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have > > heard wrong), the board was > > ???? interested > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > ???? me, > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I > > agree, if POCA was missing > > out > > ???? on > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for > > B/W then something is amiss. > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt > > didn't account for all costs > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the > > present board members will > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out > > for everyone. > > ???? I am on-board with electronic > > delivery, though I do admit it's > > nice > > ???? to > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy > > too.? It's also easier to > > ???? hand-off > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How > > do you really fix that? > > ???? I would think (and I don't know), > > that the ClubExpress membership > > ???? database might be able to include a > > "preference" as part of the > > ???? member's > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can > > set an address and phone > > number, > > ???? if I > > ???? could check a box for Electronic > > delivery or paper copies, or > > both, > > ???? and > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each > > item (Profiles versus > > Newsletter), > > ???? that might be ideal. > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with > > quantity discounting.? It very > > well > > ???? could be that it costs the same > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > ???? print > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I > > imagine those are considerations > > the > > ???? board will look at as well. > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > has claimed, I have heard (from > > ???? more > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike > > did not resign "because POCA > > ???? changed printers;" it was over > > "control" of newsletter content > > that > > ???? in > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of > > the by-laws.? For a guy that > > ???? appeared > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else > > to follow the by-laws (and > > ???? it's > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > certainly didn't feel they > > ???? applied > > ???? to him. > > ???? For the record, as I understand it, > > POCA has changed printers > > ???? -twice- > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > related to the DeRykes) got > > out > > ???? of > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" > > previously eluded to, was > > not > > ???? a > > ???? factor in the resignations. > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > for inflation) > > ???? Asa? Jay > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > USAFR, Retired > > ???? &? Shelley Marie > > ???? Spokane, WA > > ???? ****************************** > > ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org > > ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > ???? > > _______________________________________________ > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list > > ???? [22]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > ???? To manage your subscription (change > > email address, unsubscribe, > > ???? etc.) use the links above. > > ???? Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward > > ???? any message posted here to all past, > > current, or future members of > > ???? the list. They also grant the list > > owner permission to maintain an > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of > > list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [24]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant > > license to the list to forward any > > message posted here to all past, current, > > or future members of the > > list. They also grant the list owner > > permission to maintain an archive > > or approve the archiving of list > > messages. > >

10 13

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
by Charles Engles 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Dear Dick, Stephen, Ken, Judy and Larry: Amen. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dick Koch Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:46 PM To: Stephen Cc: detomaso; laurie Basile Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Stephen, thank you for saying what I was about to say. If folks want to continue to rant about this, do the courteous thing, do it offline and don't burden the rest of the world with a subject that the BOD will hopefully sort out and do the right thing, putting personality conflicts aside and implementing the needed changes to improve the club. Dick Koch - Atlanta On Aug 16, 2016 2:28 PM, "Stephen" <steve(a)snclocks.com> wrote: > So, when, exactly, did we stop beating our spouses??? > > > Effie - gads - you have the names of the printers! Call them - short > of that I can assure you any good photographer can modify a document so > you will not be able to know what is real and what is not. > > > Let's stop the witch hunt - look at the folks who stood up to the > shortt. Think about how long they have been a part of POCA. Are they > out for personal gain in standing up to a person who made way too many > folks want to quit? > > > If you or others wish to continue the witch hunt - please start a new > thread, with the initials MS in front of the subject. That way I can > route all e-mails associated with the thread to my trash bin. > > > I'm going to go back to working on 5332 and hope this whole nightmare > will just go away. > > > Stephen Nelson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On > Behalf Of Effie Richards > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:30 AM > To: 'Charles McCall' <charlesmccall(a)gmail.com>; 'marshallgsmith' > <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: 'detomaso' <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com>; 'laurie Basile' > <laurieferrari(a)aol.com> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > Where are the actual proposals/quotes from the printers, not the ones > the editor posted here. Those as they appear, could have been > manipulated - I'm not accusing anyone, I am just saying, as any court > would say - an experienced editor like Jack could add or delete to > create and post what he did here. Since there are many still > questioning the printer cost, let's see the actual bids. > > > > From: Charles McCall [[1]mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:08 AM > > To: marshallgsmith > > Cc: Michael Haney; Judith McCartney; Effie Richards; Julian Kift; > detomaso; laurie Basile > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > You did all read the info sent by Judy McCartney last week with Jack's > explanation? > > > > Re-sent here in case you didn't see it. Please open the attachment - I > promise no viruses are included > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:20 AM, marshallgsmith > <[2]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Hey Michael, > > > I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or > your > > dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the > use > > of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 > savings. > > That really seems to be the only issue that continues this > controversy > > and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm > > sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to > > move on with the rebuilding of this great club. > > > Marshall Smith > > > President, San Diego Panteras > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > > > From: Michael Haney <[3]paso750(a)gmail.com> > > Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00) > > To: 'Judith McCartney' <[4]jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards' > > <[5]erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift' > > <[6]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> > > Cc: [7]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile' > > <[8]laurieferrari(a)aol.com> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Thank you very much, Judy. > > I really wish this thread would just die. > > I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have > to > > do > > since it's the truth. > > Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was > tired > > of > > hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect > of > > POCA. > > I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's > > intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board > wasn't > > fun > > anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening. > > As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 > > even > > went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I > didn't > > want > > to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any > > more to > > Shortt's regime, but my conscience won. > > Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. > He > > decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a > > whole > > bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get > > preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I > was > > at > > work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She > called > > Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her > > questions. > > Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, > > our > > Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created. > > Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a > > connection > > between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in > > Reno, > > Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know. > > My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for > my > > SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and > > who > > might finally be able to come back home in a couple more. > > Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest? > > Mike Haney > > -----Original Message----- > > From: DeTomaso [[9]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] > On > > Behalf > > Of Judith McCartney > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM > > To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift > > Cc: [10]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff > > reasons. > > Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator. > > > From: [11]erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com > > > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700 > > > To: [12]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com > > > CC: [13]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; > [14]laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > > > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have > been > > waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some > > time to > > come up with one. > > > > > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift > <[15]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest > it > > still > > > > doesn't sit well in my gut. > > > > > > > > > > > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based > upon > > the > > > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and > > > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all > the > > facts > > w > > > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations > simply > > an > > > > outright stand against changing printer? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was > only > > > > pennies between it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Julian > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > From: DeTomaso <[16]detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> > on > > behalf of > > > > marshall smith <[17]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM > > > > To: [18]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; > [19]laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > > > > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are > now > > > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include > shipping. > > Shortt > > > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? > > > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I > heard. > > > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this > so-called > > > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it > > exists, > > > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? > > > > Marshall > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso > > > > <[20]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > To: [21]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM > > > > > > > > Dear AJ, > > > > > > > > I have always respected you and your > > > > opinions but in this case you are > > > > incorrect as far as the resignation of > > > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board > > > > of Directors' conference call where he was > > > > asked to stay and he > > > > adamantly refused to if the printer > > > > changed. Jack's resignation was > > > > specifically because of the change in > > > > printer! You can go research > > > > that phone conference call, or the minutes > > > > of the meeting, as the facts > > > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's > > > > resignation, that was done by his > > > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely > > > > were aligned with their > > > > parents. > > > > > > > > Laurie > > > > > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 > > > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > > > > [1][22]asajay(a)asajay.com > > > > writes: > > > > The last? I heard (and I may have > > > > heard wrong), the board was > > > > interested > > > > in doing a? -real- accounting > > > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > > > me, > > > > it's a wait and? see kind of > > > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing > > > > out on > > > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more > > > > for B/W then something is amiss.? > > > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt > > > > didn't account for all costs > > > > properly.? I? have more faith that > > > > the present board members will > > > > properly investigate? and sort it > > > > out for everyone. > > > > I am on-board with electronic > > > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice > > > > to > > > > just sit back and read a paper > > > > copy? too.? It's also easier to > > > > hand-off > > > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? > > > > How do you really fix that? > > > > I would think (and I don't? know), > > > > that the ClubExpress membership > > > > database might be able to include > > > > a? "preference" as part of the > > > > member's > > > > profile or details.? Just as I? can > > > > set an address and phone number, > > > > if I > > > > could check a box for Electronic? > > > > delivery or paper copies, or both, > > > > and > > > > select whatever I wanted for each? > > > > item (Profiles versus > > > > Newsletter), > > > > that might be ideal. > > > > However,? I'm also familiar with > > > > quantity discounting.? It very well > > > > could be? that it costs the same > > > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > > > print > > > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I > > > > imagine those are considerations the > > > > board will? look at as well. > > > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > > > has claimed, I have? heard (from > > > > more > > > > than one person), that Jack and > > > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA > > > > changed printers;" it was over > > > > "control" of newsletter? content that > > > > in > > > > essence fell outside the bounds of > > > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that > > > > appeared > > > > to try very hard to get everyone > > > > else to follow the? by-laws (and > > > > it's > > > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. > > > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they > > > > applied > > > > to him. > > > > For the record, as I understand it, > > > > POCA? has changed printers > > > > -twice- > > > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > > > related? to the DeRykes) got out > > > > of > > > > the business.? So the "family > > > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not > > > > a > > > > factor in the resignations. > > > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > > > for inflation) > > > > Asa? Jay > > > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > > > USAFR, Retired > > > > &? Shelley? Mar > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: detomaso-request > > <[23]detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > > > To: detomaso <[24]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am > > > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue > > > > 20 > > > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to > > > > [2][25]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > > > > Wide Web, visit > > > > > [3][26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject > > > > or body 'help' to > > > > detomaso-[4][27]request(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list > > > > at > > > > detomaso-[5][28]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject > > > > line so it is more specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." > > > > Daily Detomaso List Digest > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > > > electronic (marshallgsmith) > > > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! > > > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox) > > > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > > > electronic (Stephen) > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --- > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 > > > > From: marshallgsmith <[6][29]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > > > To: [7][30]P6746(a)aol.com, [8][31]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > > > [9][32]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > > > paper vs. electronic > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > > <[10][33]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > I have a couple questions Bob: > > > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues > > > > levels" seems to be making the > > > > issue too complex. There are some members > > > > that are opting to not have > > > > printed magazines mailed which should make > > > > those members eligible for a > > > > discount because of the savings. > > > >> What is your estimate of the length > > > > of time that it would take the > > > > board to arrange for a vote of the > > > > membership to change the bylaws to > > > > allow for this discount? > > > >> Who specifically made that > > > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > > > >> I agree that the editors should have > > > > the most influence ?on the > > > > process. ?However, our editors of both > > > > publications seem to have a hard > > > > time reporting to the members about ANY > > > > issues pertaining to the > > > > publication's themselves. Might that > > > > change in the near future or will > > > > radio silence be the norm here? > > > > Marshall Smith > > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso > > <[11][34]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) > > > > To: [12][35]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > > > [13][36]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > > > paper vs. electronic > > > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.? > > > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the > > > > pipeline.?? However, there > > > > are > > > > restrictions, particularly with the > > > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.? > > > > There > > > > are no provisions for multiple dues > > > > levels,? particularly pertaining to > > > > how a > > > > member elects to have their club? > > > > publications delivered, etc.? That > > > > will > > > > take time as any changes or? amendments > > > > must be approved by the whole > > > > membership. > > > > The consensus seems to be that the > > > > Profiles would? continue as a print > > > > publication for all except foreign members > > > > who elect to? receive it > > > > digitally.? > > > > As far as printing is concerned, it is > > > > that first copy that is? so > > > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > > > that bring down the per unit? > > > > cost.? So as > > > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the > > > > cost per unit? increases but > > > > not > > > > proportionately.?? > > > > An apples to apples comparison was made > > > > between an online? printer and > > > > the > > > > current printer for both printing and > > > > mailing and the difference? was > > > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but > > > > for the whole run.? > > > > As far as I am concerned, it is the > > > > editors who should have? the most > > > > influence as to how and where their > > > > product is produced.? They are? the > > > > ones who > > > > must work with the printers and mailing > > > > houses on a regular? basis. > > > > Bob Reid? > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. > > > > Eastern Daylight Time,? > > > > [14][37]asajay(a)asajay.com > > > > writes: > > > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard > > > > wrong), the board was > > > > interested > > > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison > > > > of printing costs, so for me, > > > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I > > > > agree, if POCA was missing out > > > > on > > > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W > > > > then something is amiss.? > > > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't > > > > account for all costs > > > > properly.? I? have more faith that the > > > > present board members will > > > > properly investigate? and sort it out for > > > > everyone. > > > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,? > > > > though I do admit it's nice to > > > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? > > > > It's also easier to hand-off > > > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do > > > > you really fix that? > > > > I would think (and I don't? know), that > > > > the ClubExpress membership > > > > database might be able to include a? > > > > "preference" as part of the > > > > member's > > > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an > > > > address and phone number, if > > > > I > > > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery > > > > or paper copies, or both, > > > > and > > > > select whatever I wanted for each? item > > > > (Profiles versus Newsletter), > > > > that might be ideal. > > > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity > > > > discounting.? It very well > > > > could be? that it costs the same amount to > > > > print 500 as it does to > > > > print > > > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine > > > > those are considerations the > > > > board will? look at as well. > > > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has > > > > claimed, I have? heard (from > > > > more > > > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did > > > > not resign? "because POCA > > > > changed printers;" it was over "control" > > > > of newsletter? content that in > > > > essence fell outside the bounds of the > > > > by-laws.? For? a guy that > > > > appeared > > > > to try very hard to get everyone else to > > > > follow the? by-laws (and it's > > > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > > > certainly didn't? feel they > > > > applied > > > > to him. > > > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA? > > > > has changed printers -twice- > > > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of > > > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"? > > > > previously eluded to, was not a > > > > factor in the resignations. > > > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for > > > > inflation) > > > > Asa? Jay > > > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, > > > > Retired > > > > &? Shelley? Marie > > > > Spokane,? WA > > > > ****************************** > > > > [15][38]http://w7tsc.org > > > > [16][39]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by > > > > POCA > > > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? > > > > Megabytes > > > > DeTomaso mailing? list > > > > [17][40]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > > [18][41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To? manage your subscription (change email > > > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > > > use > > > > the? links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant > > > > license to the list to? forward any > > > > message posted here to all past, current, > > > > or future members of the? > > > > list. They > > > > also grant the list owner permission to > > > > maintain an archive or? approve > > > > the > > > > archiving of list? messages. > > > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. > > > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in > > > > the pipeline.? However, there > > > > are > > > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the > > > > By-Laws as they currently stand. > > > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple > > > > dues levels, > > > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member > > > > elects to have their club > > > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will > > > > take time as any changes or > > > > ?? amendments must be approved by the > > > > whole membership. > > > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the > > > > Profiles would continue as a > > > > print > > > > ?? publication for all except foreign > > > > members who elect to receive it > > > > ?? digitally. > > > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is > > > > that first copy that is so > > > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > > > that bring down the per unit > > > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced > > > > and shipped, the cost per unit > > > > ?? increases but not proportionately. > > > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made > > > > between an online printer > > > > and > > > > ?? the current printer for both printing > > > > and mailing and the difference > > > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per > > > > unit but for the whole run. > > > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the > > > > editors who should have the most > > > > ?? influence as to how and where their > > > > product is produced.? They are > > > > the > > > > ?? ones who must work with the printers > > > > and mailing houses on a regular > > > > ?? basis. > > > > ?? Bob Reid > > > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 > > > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > ?? [19][42]asajay(a)asajay.com > > > > writes: > > > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have > > > > heard wrong), the board was > > > > ???? interested > > > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting > > > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > > > ???? me, > > > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I > > > > agree, if POCA was missing > > > > out > > > > ???? on > > > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for > > > > B/W then something is amiss. > > > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt > > > > didn't account for all costs > > > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the > > > > present board members will > > > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out > > > > for everyone. > > > > ???? I am on-board with electronic > > > > delivery, though I do admit it's > > > > nice > > > > ???? to > > > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy > > > > too.? It's also easier to > > > > ???? hand-off > > > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How > > > > do you really fix that? > > > > ???? I would think (and I don't know), > > > > that the ClubExpress membership > > > > ???? database might be able to include a > > > > "preference" as part of the > > > > ???? member's > > > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can > > > > set an address and phone > > > > number, > > > > ???? if I > > > > ???? could check a box for Electronic > > > > delivery or paper copies, or > > > > both, > > > > ???? and > > > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each > > > > item (Profiles versus > > > > Newsletter), > > > > ???? that might be ideal. > > > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with > > > > quantity discounting.? It very > > > > well > > > > ???? could be that it costs the same > > > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > > > ???? print > > > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I > > > > imagine those are considerations > > > > the > > > > ???? board will look at as well. > > > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > > > has claimed, I have heard (from > > > > ???? more > > > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike > > > > did not resign "because POCA > > > > ???? changed printers;" it was over > > > > "control" of newsletter content > > > > that > > > > ???? in > > > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of > > > > the by-laws.? For a guy that > > > > ???? appeared > > > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else > > > > to follow the by-laws (and > > > > ???? it's > > > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > > > certainly didn't feel they > > > > ???? applied > > > > ???? to him. > > > > ???? For the record, as I understand it, > > > > POCA has changed printers > > > > ???? -twice- > > > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > > > related to the DeRykes) got > > > > out > > > > ???? of > > > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" > > > > previously eluded to, was > > > > not > > > > ???? a > > > > ???? factor in the resignations. > > > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > > > for inflation) > > > > ???? Asa? Jay > > > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > > > USAFR, Retired > > > > ???? &? Shelley Marie > > > > ???? Spokane, WA > > > > ???? ****************************** > > > > ???? [20][43]http://w7tsc.org > > > > ???? [21][44]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > > > ???? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > > > POCA > > > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > > > Megabytes > > > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list > > > > ???? [22][45]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > ???? > > [23][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > ???? To manage your subscription (change > > > > email address, unsubscribe, > > > > ???? etc.) use the links above. > > > > ???? Members who post to this list grant > > > > license to the list to forward > > > > ???? any message posted here to all past, > > > > current, or future members of > > > > ???? the list. They also grant the list > > > > owner permission to maintain an > > > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of > > > > list messages. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > > > POCA > > > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > > > Megabytes > > > > DeTomaso mailing list > > > > [24][47]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > > [25][48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email > > > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > > > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant > > > > license to the list to forward any > > > > message posted here to all past, current, > > > > or future members of the > > > > list. They also grant the list owner > > > > permission to maintain an archive > > > > or approve the archiving of list > > > > messages. > > > >

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] resignations THE END
by Larry Stock 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Jack DeRyke has been trying so desperately to explain that the MS quotations, had never been actually revealed in any written form, were in error since they never included the all the fullment costs of sorting and attaching the mailing labels. Apparently no one wanted to listen to Jack about this so he went out himself and got the formal quotes to which he presented in the attachment that Charlie produced for you this morning and made a formal presentation to the BOD at the time and was shot down along then party support lines and resigned in frustration. The other argument points have been that the monthly newsletter is mostly just text anyway, so what color do you want the text in? Jack could and has done the front and back cover in color before, but that is about it for color in the monthly news letter. The other MS small print item I noticed was that To do a full color format is a 16 page minimum print web section so the monthly newsletter would need to be expanded to 16 pages wether we had the content or not, and that could lead to added mailing costs. I didn¹t hear anyone discuss that added cost point either. The Profiles is pretty much already in color, so what¹s the difference. Can we just drop it for now and go back to going forward? I just want to add, that With Judy being 2 weeks in the hospital, and now another week and counting in a respiratory rehab center for who knows how much longer, Jack has lost his mind once again volunteered to do what he loves to do and write DeTomaso Tech articles. He is doing it ALL at home and still wants to put out this newsletter for us all alone. Get well quickly Judy, and Thank You Jack for all you do and try to do for Judy, everyone else and the POCA Club. Larry Stock On 8/16/16, 12:32 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Effie Richards" <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com on behalf of erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > Stephen, > > As I just responded to a private message from Judy Mc, I don't wish to > call anyone (printers) myself - I feel that is the POCA board's job, > when they have the time, to reach out and explain the printer matter > and why, if there was never an $8K savings, why was that NEVER > communicated to the members way back, why keep it a private secret and > make the board look suspicious for "not cooperating in saving the club > $8K".... > > This is a simple and common sense question, I have and many have. > > The answer is somewhere, but that answer is not " we just didn't want > to cause drama"... because drama was caused. > > > Also, Stephen, I am not starting a "witch hunt" (that's insulting and > not democratic) - I am asking a simple question, to which there is a > true answer. It appears you have all the answers, which is great, but > I don't. > > > I didn't get your "So, when exactly, did we stop beating our > spouses???" comment below. Is it related to the rest of your message? > I couldn't make the connection, but then, English is my second > language, please explain. > > E > > > From: Stephen [mailto:steve@snclocks.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:29 AM > To: 'Effie Richards'; 'Charles McCall'; 'marshallgsmith' > Cc: 'detomaso'; 'laurie Basile' > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > So, when, exactly, did we stop beating our spouses??? > > > > Effie - gads - you have the names of the printers! Call them - short > of that I can assure you any good photographer can modify a document so > you will not be able to know what is real and what is not. > > > Let's stop the witch hunt - look at the folks who stood up to the > shortt. Think about how long they have been a part of POCA. Are they > out for personal gain in standing up to a person who made way too many > folks want to quit? > > > If you or others wish to continue the witch hunt - please start a new > thread, with the initials MS in front of the subject. That way I can > route all e-mails associated with the thread to my trash bin. > > > I'm going to go back to working on 5332 and hope this whole nightmare > will just go away. > > > Stephen Nelson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [[1]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On > Behalf Of Effie Richards > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:30 AM > To: 'Charles McCall' <[2]charlesmccall(a)gmail.com>; 'marshallgsmith' > <[3]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: 'detomaso' <[4]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com>; 'laurie Basile' > <[5]laurieferrari(a)aol.com> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > Where are the actual proposals/quotes from the printers, not the ones > the editor posted here. Those as they appear, could have been > manipulated - I'm not accusing anyone, I am just saying, as any court > would say - an experienced editor like Jack could add or delete to > create and post what he did here. Since there are many still > questioning the printer cost, let's see the actual bids. > > > > > From: Charles McCall [[6]mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:08 AM > > To: marshallgsmith > > Cc: Michael Haney; Judith McCartney; Effie Richards; Julian Kift; > detomaso; laurie Basile > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > > You did all read the info sent by Judy McCartney last week with Jack's > explanation? > > > > > Re-sent here in case you didn't see it. Please open the attachment - I > promise no viruses are included > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:20 AM, marshallgsmith > <[7]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Hey Michael, > > > I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or > your > > dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the > use > > of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 > savings. > > That really seems to be the only issue that continues this > controversy > > and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm > > sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to > > move on with the rebuilding of this great club. > > > Marshall Smith > > > President, San Diego Panteras > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > > > From: Michael Haney <[8]paso750(a)gmail.com> > > Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00) > > To: 'Judith McCartney' <[9]jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards' > > <[10]erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift' > > <[11]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> > > Cc: [12]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile' > > <[13]laurieferrari(a)aol.com> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Thank you very much, Judy. > > I really wish this thread would just die. > > I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have > to > > do > > since it's the truth. > > Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was > tired > > of > > hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect > of > > POCA. > > I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's > > intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board > wasn't > > fun > > anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening. > > As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 > > even > > went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I > didn't > > want > > to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any > > more to > > Shortt's regime, but my conscience won. > > Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. > He > > decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a > > whole > > bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get > > preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I > was > > at > > work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She > called > > Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her > > questions. > > Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, > > our > > Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created. > > Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a > > connection > > between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in > > Reno, > > Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know. > > My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for > my > > SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and > > who > > might finally be able to come back home in a couple more. > > Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest? > > Mike Haney > > -----Original Message----- > > From: DeTomaso [[14]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] > On > > Behalf > > Of Judith McCartney > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM > > To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift > > Cc: [15]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff > > reasons. > > Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator. > > > From: [16]erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com > > > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700 > > > To: [17]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com > > > CC: [18]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; > [19]laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > > > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have > been > > waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some > > time to > > come up with one. > > > > > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift > <[20]julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest > it > > still > > > > doesn't sit well in my gut. > > > > > > > > > > > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based > upon > > the > > > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and > > > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all > the > > facts > > w > > > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations > simply > > an > > > > outright stand against changing printer? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was > only > > > > pennies between it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Julian > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > From: DeTomaso <[21]detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> > on > > behalf of > > > > marshall smith <[22]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM > > > > To: [23]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; > [24]laurieferrari(a)aol.com > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > > > > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are > now > > > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include > shipping. > > Shortt > > > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...? > > > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I > heard. > > > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this > so-called > > > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it > > exists, > > > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner? > > > > Marshall > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso > > > > <[25]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations > > > > To: [26]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM > > > > > > > > Dear AJ, > > > > > > > > I have always respected you and your > > > > opinions but in this case you are > > > > incorrect as far as the resignation of > > > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board > > > > of Directors' conference call where he was > > > > asked to stay and he > > > > adamantly refused to if the printer > > > > changed. Jack's resignation was > > > > specifically because of the change in > > > > printer! You can go research > > > > that phone conference call, or the minutes > > > > of the meeting, as the facts > > > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's > > > > resignation, that was done by his > > > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely > > > > were aligned with their > > > > parents. > > > > > > > > Laurie > > > > > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 > > > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > > > > [1][27]asajay(a)asajay.com > > > > writes: > > > > The last? I heard (and I may have > > > > heard wrong), the board was > > > > interested > > > > in doing a? -real- accounting > > > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > > > me, > > > > it's a wait and? see kind of > > > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing > > > > out on > > > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more > > > > for B/W then something is amiss.? > > > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt > > > > didn't account for all costs > > > > properly.? I? have more faith that > > > > the present board members will > > > > properly investigate? and sort it > > > > out for everyone. > > > > I am on-board with electronic > > > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice > > > > to > > > > just sit back and read a paper > > > > copy? too.? It's also easier to > > > > hand-off > > > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? > > > > How do you really fix that? > > > > I would think (and I don't? know), > > > > that the ClubExpress membership > > > > database might be able to include > > > > a? "preference" as part of the > > > > member's > > > > profile or details.? Just as I? can > > > > set an address and phone number, > > > > if I > > > > could check a box for Electronic? > > > > delivery or paper copies, or both, > > > > and > > > > select whatever I wanted for each? > > > > item (Profiles versus > > > > Newsletter), > > > > that might be ideal. > > > > However,? I'm also familiar with > > > > quantity discounting.? It very well > > > > could be? that it costs the same > > > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > > > print > > > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I > > > > imagine those are considerations the > > > > board will? look at as well. > > > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > > > has claimed, I have? heard (from > > > > more > > > > than one person), that Jack and > > > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA > > > > changed printers;" it was over > > > > "control" of newsletter? content that > > > > in > > > > essence fell outside the bounds of > > > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that > > > > appeared > > > > to try very hard to get everyone > > > > else to follow the? by-laws (and > > > > it's > > > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. > > > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they > > > > applied > > > > to him. > > > > For the record, as I understand it, > > > > POCA? has changed printers > > > > -twice- > > > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > > > related? to the DeRykes) got out > > > > of > > > > the business.? So the "family > > > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not > > > > a > > > > factor in the resignations. > > > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > > > for inflation) > > > > Asa? Jay > > > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > > > USAFR, Retired > > > > &? Shelley? Mar > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: detomaso-request > > <[28]detomaso-request(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > > > To: detomaso <[29]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am > > > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue > > > > 20 > > > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to > > > > [2][30]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World > > > > Wide Web, visit > > > > > [3][31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject > > > > or body 'help' to > > > > detomaso-[4][32]request(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list > > > > at > > > > detomaso-[5][33]owner(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject > > > > line so it is more specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." > > > > Daily Detomaso List Digest > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > > > electronic (marshallgsmith) > > > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! > > > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox) > > > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. > > > > electronic (Stephen) > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --- > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 > > > > From: marshallgsmith <[6][34]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > > > > To: [7][35]P6746(a)aol.com, [8][36]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > > > [9][37]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > > > paper vs. electronic > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > > <[10][38]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405(a)email.android.com> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > I have a couple questions Bob: > > > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues > > > > levels" seems to be making the > > > > issue too complex. There are some members > > > > that are opting to not have > > > > printed magazines mailed which should make > > > > those members eligible for a > > > > discount because of the savings. > > > >> What is your estimate of the length > > > > of time that it would take the > > > > board to arrange for a vote of the > > > > membership to change the bylaws to > > > > allow for this discount? > > > >> Who specifically made that > > > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > > > >> I agree that the editors should have > > > > the most influence ?on the > > > > process. ?However, our editors of both > > > > publications seem to have a hard > > > > time reporting to the members about ANY > > > > issues pertaining to the > > > > publication's themselves. Might that > > > > change in the near future or will > > > > radio silence be the norm here? > > > > Marshall Smith > > > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso > > <[11][39]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > > > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) > > > > To: [12][40]asajay(a)asajay.com, > > > > [13][41]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, > > > > paper vs. electronic > > > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.? > > > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the > > > > pipeline.?? However, there > > > > are > > > > restrictions, particularly with the > > > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.? > > > > There > > > > are no provisions for multiple dues > > > > levels,? particularly pertaining to > > > > how a > > > > member elects to have their club? > > > > publications delivered, etc.? That > > > > will > > > > take time as any changes or? amendments > > > > must be approved by the whole > > > > membership. > > > > The consensus seems to be that the > > > > Profiles would? continue as a print > > > > publication for all except foreign members > > > > who elect to? receive it > > > > digitally.? > > > > As far as printing is concerned, it is > > > > that first copy that is? so > > > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > > > that bring down the per unit? > > > > cost.? So as > > > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the > > > > cost per unit? increases but > > > > not > > > > proportionately.?? > > > > An apples to apples comparison was made > > > > between an online? printer and > > > > the > > > > current printer for both printing and > > > > mailing and the difference? was > > > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but > > > > for the whole run.? > > > > As far as I am concerned, it is the > > > > editors who should have? the most > > > > influence as to how and where their > > > > product is produced.? They are? the > > > > ones who > > > > must work with the printers and mailing > > > > houses on a regular? basis. > > > > Bob Reid? > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. > > > > Eastern Daylight Time,? > > > > [14][42]asajay(a)asajay.com > > > > writes: > > > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard > > > > wrong), the board was > > > > interested > > > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison > > > > of printing costs, so for me, > > > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I > > > > agree, if POCA was missing out > > > > on > > > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W > > > > then something is amiss.? > > > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't > > > > account for all costs > > > > properly.? I? have more faith that the > > > > present board members will > > > > properly investigate? and sort it out for > > > > everyone. > > > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,? > > > > though I do admit it's nice to > > > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? > > > > It's also easier to hand-off > > > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do > > > > you really fix that? > > > > I would think (and I don't? know), that > > > > the ClubExpress membership > > > > database might be able to include a? > > > > "preference" as part of the > > > > member's > > > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an > > > > address and phone number, if > > > > I > > > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery > > > > or paper copies, or both, > > > > and > > > > select whatever I wanted for each? item > > > > (Profiles versus Newsletter), > > > > that might be ideal. > > > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity > > > > discounting.? It very well > > > > could be? that it costs the same amount to > > > > print 500 as it does to > > > > print > > > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine > > > > those are considerations the > > > > board will? look at as well. > > > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has > > > > claimed, I have? heard (from > > > > more > > > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did > > > > not resign? "because POCA > > > > changed printers;" it was over "control" > > > > of newsletter? content that in > > > > essence fell outside the bounds of the > > > > by-laws.? For? a guy that > > > > appeared > > > > to try very hard to get everyone else to > > > > follow the? by-laws (and it's > > > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > > > certainly didn't? feel they > > > > applied > > > > to him. > > > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA? > > > > has changed printers -twice- > > > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of > > > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"? > > > > previously eluded to, was not a > > > > factor in the resignations. > > > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for > > > > inflation) > > > > Asa? Jay > > > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, > > > > Retired > > > > &? Shelley? Marie > > > > Spokane,? WA > > > > ****************************** > > > > [15][43]http://w7tsc.org > > > > [16][44]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by > > > > POCA > > > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? > > > > Megabytes > > > > DeTomaso mailing? list > > > > [17][45]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > > [18][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To? manage your subscription (change email > > > > address unsubscribe, etc.) > > > > use > > > > the? links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant > > > > license to the lst to? forward any > > > > message posted here to all past current, > > > > or future members of the? > > > > list. They > > > > also grant the list owner permission to > > > > maintain an archive or? approve > > > > the > > > > archiving of list? messages. > > > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. > > > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in > > > > the pipeline.? However, there > > > > are > > > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the > > > > By-Laws as they currently stand. > > > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple > > > > dues levels, > > > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member > > > > elects to have their club > > > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will > > > > take time as any changes or > > > > ?? amendments must be approved by the > > > > whole membership. > > > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the > > > > Profiles would continue as a > > > > print > > > > ?? publication for all except foreign > > > > members who elect to receive it > > > > ?? digitally. > > > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is > > > > that first copy that is so > > > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies > > > > that bring down the per unit > > > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced > > > > and shipped, the cost per unit > > > > ?? increases but not proportionately. > > > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made > > > > between an online printer > > > > and > > > > ?? the current printer for both printing > > > > and mailing and the difference > > > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per > > > > unit but for the whole run. > > > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the > > > > editors who should have the most > > > > ?? influence as to how and where their > > > > product is produced.? They are > > > > the > > > > ?? ones who must work with the printers > > > > and mailing houses on a regular > > > > ?? basis. > > > > ?? Bob Reid > > > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 > > > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > ?? [19][47]asajay(a)asajay.com > > > > writes: > > > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have > > > > heard wrong), the board was > > > > ???? interested > > > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting > > > > comparison of printing costs, so for > > > > ???? me, > > > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I > > > > agree, if POCA was missing > > > > out > > > > ???? on > > > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for > > > > B/W then something is amiss. > > > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt > > > > didn't account for all costs > > > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the > > > > present board members will > > > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out > > > > for everyone. > > > > ???? I am on-board with electronic > > > > delivery, though I do admit it's > > > > nice > > > > ???? to > > > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy > > > > too.? It's also easier to > > > > ???? hand-off > > > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How > > > > do you really fix that? > > > > ???? I would think (and I don't know), > > > > that the ClubExpress membership > > > > ???? database might be able to include a > > > > "preference" as part of the > > > > ???? member's > > > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can > > > > set an address and phone > > > > number, > > > > ???? if I > > > > ???? could check a box for Electronic > > > > delivery or paper copies, or > > > > both, > > > > ???? and > > > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each > > > > item (Profiles versus > > > > Newsletter), > > > > ???? that might be ideal. > > > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with > > > > quantity discounting.? It very > > > > well > > > > ???? could be that it costs the same > > > > amount to print 500 as it does to > > > > ???? print > > > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I > > > > imagine those are considerations > > > > the > > > > ???? board will look at as well. > > > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie > > > > has claimed, I have heard (from > > > > ???? more > > > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike > > > > did not resign "because POCA > > > > ???? changed printers;" it was over > > > > "control" of newsletter content > > > > that > > > > ???? in > > > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of > > > > the by-laws.? For a guy that > > > > ???? appeared > > > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else > > > > to follow the by-laws (and > > > > ???? it's > > > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt > > > > certainly didn't feel they > > > > ???? applied > > > > ???? to him. > > > > ???? For the record, as I understand it, > > > > POCA has changed printers > > > > ???? -twice- > > > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were > > > > related to the DeRykes) got > > > > out > > > > ???? of > > > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" > > > > previously eluded to, was > > > > not > > > > ???? a > > > > ???? factor in the resignations. > > > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted > > > > for inflation) > > > > ???? Asa? Jay > > > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, > > > > USAFR, Retired > > > > ???? &? Shelley Marie > > > > ???? Spokane, WA > > > > ???? ****************************** > > > > ???? [20][48]http://w7tsc.org > > > > ???? [21][49]http://www.teampanteraracing.com > > > > ???? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > > > POCA > > > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > > > Megabytes > > > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list > > > > ???? [22][50]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > ???? > > [23][51]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > ???? To manage your subscription (change > > > > email address, unsubscribe, > > > > ???? etc.) use the links above. > > > > ???? Members who post to this list grant > > > > license to the list to forward > > > > ???? any message posted here to all past, > > > > current, or future members of > > > > ???? the list. They also grant the list > > > > owner permission to maintain an > > > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of > > > > list messages. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by > > > > POCA > > > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 > > > > Megabytes > > > > DeTomaso mailing list > > > > [24][52]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > > > > [25][53]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email > > > > address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > > > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant > > > > license to the list to forward any > > > > message posted here to all past, current, > > > > or future members of the > > > > list. They also grant the list owner > > > > permission to maintain an archive > > > > or approve the archiving of list > > > > messages. > > > >

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19" MAGNUS **STUNNING!!!** (5x100) Gun-Metal Polished Alloy Wheels
by Michael Barnes 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Found these on eBay,don't know if they would fit,but I think they would look cool👍 Look at this on eBay 19" MAGNUS **STUNNING!!!** (5x100) Gun-Metal Polished Alloy Wheels Sent from my iPad Found these on eBay,don't know if they would fit,but I think they would look cool [s-l200.jpg] Look at this on eBay [1]19" MAGNUS **STUNNING!!!** (5x100) Gun-Metal Polished Alloy Wheels Sent from my iPad References 1. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262568353405

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Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
by Ed Lyerly 16 Aug '16

16 Aug '16

Judy, Thank you for sharing the actual printing + mailing comparison between Allegra and PrintingcenterUSA.com for the monthly POCA Newsletters. Can you a provide a printing + mailing comparison on the quarterly Profiles as well ? I think that info would go a long way toward completely clarifying the printing + mailing issues that keep popping up. Ed L -----Original Message----- From: Judith McCartney [mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:59 PM To: Forest Goodhart; Mark Charlton; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.

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